Undead team: what kind of team are they, exactly?

Artificial Penguin · Post by **Artificial Penguin** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 7:14 pm

I'm about to start a new league with an Undead team. I've played them in 6 preseason games, and gone 3-3 so far. Two of the three losses were just terrible luck, so I feel good about the team so far.

My question: what are they, exactly? I've heard in a few places that they're a Strength team, but they strike me more as a Balanced team. My reasoning:

1) They have the 2 Mummies, yes, but their only other hitters, Wights, cannot even take Strength skills.
2) They can have up to 4 players that start with Dodge and move 7 (Ghouls).

When I consider other possible Strength teams, I just don't see how Undead really measure up:

- Orcs can have 4 Str 4 players plus an ally
- Lizardmen (hybrid team) can have 6 Str 4 players plus an ally
- Dwarves can have 2 Trollslayers plus an ally plus tons of guys who can take strength skills

One thing I've left out is that Undead have regen, so they can last better in a war of attrition.

I'm not complaining, just wondering how you folks see the Undead. Anybody here with experiencing coaching or coaching against them effectively? I'd love to hear your input.

Thanks,

The Artificial Penguin

Note: I saw that there's another poster with 'Penguin' in his/her name...my apologies, but this is the name I've always used online. Not trying to step on yer toes.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 7:34 pm

Undead are a bashing running team. The reason they are bashing is cause of the attrition caused by regenerate. The mummies are the strongest basic players in the game and as such can knock through most places. The running game is really suited cause they aren't the most agile team so can't really throw it as well as they can run it. As the ghouls are quite quick, this also helps with running for the td from a cage.

They aren't really that balenced cause they really can't play the throwing game very well, no one can get passing skills normally and their players aren't high ag either, so like i said the bashing running game like orcs, dwarfs and choas suits them.

Also the penguin nickname, its rather comman in various guises, I wouldn't worry about it ;]

Artificial Penguin · Post by **Artificial Penguin** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 7:43 pm

Good point that they can't truly be considered balanced with no passers/catchers/high agility players. I guess my ghouls just seem fast in comparison with the rest of my players

A side note: we had a draft this weekend to start off the league and I got someone I'm pretty happy about:

Helena, Amazon Blitzer
6347 Block, Dodge, Leader

I know she's only got AV 7 and I can't use an apothecary (well our commish ruled Undead can buy an apothecary for non-Undead players, but I don't think it's worth it for 50k just for her). But she comes with a built-in reroll (worth 70k to me), and agility 4, and is hard to put down. Not that I'm planning on making her vulnerable to anyone.

She's supposed to be my ball handler hiding out in the middle of the cage. Worked great in the 1 practice game I played so far.

Fronko · Post by **Fronko** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 9:14 am

Yo!

Check wiht your commish, if ghouls are counted as undead or not. Actually they are not (at least in common opinion), so that apo might work for them as well.

That would make worth the choice.

Bye, Fronko!

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 2:14 pm

Undead have always seemed to me to be an endurance team, along similar lines to Dwarves. Most of their players regenerate and have AV 8 or better, which isn't much different than AV 9 in terms of survivability. The obvious difference is that Undead can score in a hurry when necessary whereas clock control is about all a Dwarf coach can depend upon.

grotemuis · Post by **grotemuis** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:11 pm

Don't refer to the mummies as just a mummy, two mummies are almost better than 4! black orcs. In the games I have played against undead the mummies were very effective, per game they do at least one/two casualties each (and this was against orcs!).

Piepgrass · Post by **Piepgrass** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:26 pm

I would seriusly consider to buy a apothecary just for her.
With ag 4 and leader she is worth protecting, so if you have the extra 50.k burn them on a apo.

Poul

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:17 pm

Block AND Dodge AND AG4 AAAND Leader?!?!? Dude, buy the Apothecary. Would you pay 50k to hve one of you players have all that? I sure as hell would, so pay it. Make sure she stays on your team!

If your Commissioner rules that your team can use Apo's on Ghouls, I'm joining your league. There is a REASON why Undead don't have Apo's. Their players almost never ever die, AND if they do, you can make another from the other team's deaths!

Blood

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:17 pm

I would also buy an apothecary just for her. She's gives you a lot of things you don't have normally, and protecting your extra reroll sounds like a bargain. She can even take strengh skills, though I'd go with Sure Hands next, personally.

Artificial Penguin · Post by **Artificial Penguin** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 8:22 pm

OK, OK, I'll buy her an Apothecary

At worst, it's like paying 50k for a reroll, which is a bargain for we Undead players...

kaboom · Post by **kaboom** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 3:27 pm

Duck the uindead

christer · Post by **christer** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 3:40 pm

Personally, I like having the zombies around.. They are perfect for pinning various st4+, ag1/2 players such as ogres and black orcs.. Keep those guys on the zombies and the rest of your team can concentrate on playing the game against your opponent's low-strength players.. Naturally, you want to keep your mummies away from these "zombie-pinned" players.

Against elves or running teams, put the zombies on non-dodgers. Chances are that your opponent will run someone in for the assist and free up the area around the ball by doing so.

The low cost makes them very replacable (actually, with regen and raise the dead they are practically free) so I have no problem setting them up close to that piling on RSC chaos warrior... Anything to keep them off the ghouls

-- Christer

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 4:03 pm

The Undead are the same type of team that Dwarfs are. An attrition team. The Undead and Dwarfs can absorb alot of damage. This is partly why they are mistaken for a bashing team they dish out more damage than they take. I don't think it's fair to call them a strength team when only 2 of them can take strength skills.

Typically, and under normal circumstances, they should run running pplayers where the blitzers clear a path and block for the ghouls. For this reason most people prefer the zombies over the skeletons. I usually take and even amount of both. Skeletons have a slightly better potential for development into something more than a lineman. Zombies usually do nothing but support the mummies.

What I usually did with this team is to play them defensively, even on offense. On offense I send just about everything I have, except the ghoul with the ball and his partner ghoul, forward and clear a path. I try to part the opposition like the Red Sea. Think divide and conquer. try to hold the hole open and bring the ghouls through, maybe with skeletons as rear guard. Another reason I like skellies; they can keep up with the ghouls better.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 4:11 pm

addendum to pariah's comments: undead are a FOULING attrition team. The best/most efficient way to win consistently with undead is with a roster of 15 (I like to have 1 empty spot left for the added insult of turning a guy's best player into a zombie after I kill him), and half all of your skels and zombies take dirty player. Then you foul with them and who cares if you lose some to igmeoy?! As long as you can field 11 or so at the end of the game it's all good. This gives you 5 or 6 more fouls per game than you would otherwise be willing to take with most teams.

note that I haven't actually playtested this theory in the lrb edition of bb, but the logic seems obvious enough. I did make an all dp undead team in old 3rd ed rules and they were nasty! i used them to challenge people who i thought were bending the rules, or being jerks to play against, or whatever.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 4:22 pm

addendum to wesley's addendum...

I forgot about tha! Thanks wes!

Yes those little 30K turds are very useful as "suicide bombers". (That's what I used to call them...s'pose I should rethink that nowadays.)

They benefit from dirty player and wesley's tactic. Also another fun thing to do is... say, you are done with your turn and you haven't blitzed, or a zombie is off to the side in an ogre's TZ. Throw a defender's choice block with them! Tell that skeleton to put his head down and rush that ogre! If he dies...so what? He cost 30K. If he kills the ogre? Well you get to point and laugh!