Coolest buffs for 3 underachievers

[plasmoid]

Hi all,
I'm messing with the team lists, adding some buffs to some of the underachieving teams. However, on 3 of the teams I'm torn between 2 options. So let me know which one you'd prefer if you had to choose, and you wanted the team to be more competitive.

[And for the record, I understand that voting here doesn't actually mean that you'd want any of this stuff to happen. That's why it's a poll in the house rules section]

Sorry for making this a monster poll, but I figured it would be better than 3 polls.

Anyway, my thoughts are:
Vampires
a) vamps MA7 (+10K) - a little more bite to the vamp offense
b) thralls +thick skull (still 40K) - because thralls get used to massive bloodloss

Ogres
a) MA6 snots (still 20K) - the team is excruciatingly slow.
b) AV6 snots (still 20K) - they'd still be extremely feeble, and opponents simply sniping off all your snots is a massive problem for ogre teams.

Humans
a) Catchers +Diving Catch (+10K) - every time I try anything fancy, my catchers fail me.
b) Catchers +AV8 (+10K) - being vulnerable prevents many coaches from using multiple catchers.

Thanks for the feedback
Martin

[The Painted Goblin]

+MA on the vamps and the snots

+diving catch on the human catchers (to retain their character mainly!)

[Dzerards]

+MA on the vamps and the snots

+diving catch on the human catchers (to retain their character mainly!)

+1.

But to be honest these teams are supposed to be underachieving, that's part of both their character and design intent.

That said, MA 7 vamps would be sweet.

[Ulthuan_Express]

Human catchers underachieve? I've never found that, at all. Stick block on them the minute they hit 6SPPs and never look back - I can't count the number of touchdowns they've both scored for me and prevented the opposition from scoring.

[plasmoid]

Wow - I see a fairly clear pattern emerging

[gandresch]

Hi,

Thick Skull on all Thralls is too tough. Perhaps a new position would do it here: 0-2 6338 Thick Skull G 60k

Even with MA6 or AV6 the Snots won't make the team much better. The number of ogres is the problem, i think. 6 is just not enough. But the team is fluffy as it is.

Humans are a very cool team. Positions are cheap and all have their reroll for a certain action. Changing the catchers isn't needed in my eyes.

Greets,
gan

[mattgslater]

Wow - I see a fairly clear pattern emerging

But you only have 10 votes. Give it a bit.

[Rhyoth]

Voted for Thick Skull on thralls and AV 6 Snots.

However, i didn't vote for Human, because i think there are more suitable options for Catchers :
_ 60 k Catchers : for easier replacement. Also it becomes more affordable to run a team with more than 2 Catchers
_ as a matter of style, Sure Feet seems more adequate than DC (although it's less effective)

Besides, AV 8 on Catchers is still a complete nonsense...

[plasmoid]

Hi all,
not trying to open up a discussion as I've had it once before, and besides I don't want to taint the feedback. So I'll try to keep it short.

But to be honest these teams are supposed to be underachieving, that's part of both their character and design intent.

Agree on ogres and vamps. Not humans.
Admittedly, humans suck far less than the other two - but I've had enough reports that humans just don't cut the mustard as a top team.
As for ogres and vamps - I'd prefer teams to be designed (reasonably) competitive.
It is far easier to make cuts in a team if you're a great coach than it is to invent a balanced buff if that's your thing.

Thick Skull on all Thralls is too tough.

All the stats we have on vamps show them as a tier 2. I think they can take quite a boost without flying past tier 1 and into the realm of broken.

Cheers
Martin

[Oxynot]

I'm only commenting on the Ogres since it is the only team of the three I have experience on.

MA6 is definitely more useful on snotlings than AV6. Movement is especially useful on ball pick up, and also everywhere else really. AV6 with ST1 means they're practicalyl as squishy as before with no performance improvement.

What I'd also like to see as a buff to the Ogre team would be a price reduction on the ogres themselves. Maybe even by 20k to 120k. After a skill or two on each ogre your TV is ridiculously high, but without the same relative improvement as other teams with similar amount of extra skills, never minding who they're on.

This works doubly against you, because as a stunty team, you need to be getting inducements to have a fighting chance. If you're giving out inducements.. usually it is not a pretty sight. This is assuming you fail Bone Head rolls with an average rate

I haven't had the chance to test those buffs out, but it is difficult to overdo it with a team that only retains skills on six players

[Kort]

I am convinced that Human Catchers need a boost, and the most obvious one is to decrease their cost to 60k barring a stat or skill improvement. 70k is definitely too expensive since the usefulness of Catch combined with AG3 is clearly worth less than the 20k this skill currently costs. Compared to the equivalent positions on other teams (Gutter Runner, any Elf Catcher, Ghoul...) the Human Catcher deserves at least a 10k price break. Amazon Catchers suffer from the same drawback but the team does not really need to rely on them and their AG skill access because of universal Dodge.

I am not ready to pay more than 70k for a ST2, AG3, AV7 player anyway, so Diving Catch for +10k is out of question, especially since the skill does not work on Hand-Offs [If someone in-the-know could explain me the rationale for this quirk in the design of Diving Catch, I would really appreciate that !]

+10k for AV8 seems reasonable power-wise, but I feel the Human Catchers would lose its character. I would prefer to see him perform better out of the box while staying a fragile piece.

I could not care less about giving Vampires a boost until the Human team is somehow improved first. Ogres are designed to be tier 3 but do definitely really bad, so any small boost on the Snotlings seems reasonable. Any price break for the Ogres should also benefit the Human roster.

[plasmoid]

Hi Kort,
I agree on a lot of your points.
Having done the math for the catcher, I agree that DC should come at no extra points cost.
Cheers
Martin

[plasmoid]

Still some fairly clear favourite options.
The most contested one is winning 75% to 25% - so it looks pretty solid.
Thanks for the feedback.
More on this real soon

[mattgslater]

In the Ogre thread, did nobody propose 0-2x Goblin?

[plasmoid]

Yeah, but the option lost out to more ogres and faster snots
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=27408

That being said - I like it.
And it would probably have been more powerul than the MA6 snots.