How to enforce Bonehead

[Indigo]

PART 1:Last night, my Ogre was 6 squares from their endzone, with the ball. I moved him 5 then "went for it" 1 to score.

My opponent then reminded me I hadn't rolled for bonehead.

Should this still count as a TD -surely the call should be made BEFORE I finish my move/turn?

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PART 2:
Also, in our league, if a bonehead roll is forgotten (not failed though, just forgotten) the opponent can call for illegal procedure. However, if he forgets to do so, the chance is wasted and the move stands. In this case, I had finished my move, and my turn had ended with the touchdown, but I was forced to make my bonehead roll (which of course I failed)


I think I wuz robbed...

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It's worth noting though that in that game I killed 2 linerats, seriously injured another and badly hurt a storm vermin and a gutter runner. His Rat Ogre was only on the pitch for 2 turns too - knocked out the whole game

Ahh chaos at it's best

[martynq]

I'm afraid I agree with your opponent - I would say that you should roll the bonehead.

Martyn

[DoubleSkulls]

Well in the 1st case you should make the bonehead roll. If you fail take the move back. Anything else is unsporting. Its your responsibility to make the rolls not up to your opponent to spot them.

In the 2nd case you weren't robbed - you deserved it.

I don't understand how you can feel hard done by when you are failing to follow the rules.

[Mojoshenpo]

I personally think that house ruling the forgotten bonehead roll is a bad idea: what is the full extent of the penalty for failure? Is it replaced by the same rules for not moving your turn marker? If so, then spend a re-roll and take the touchdown. After all, he missed the call UNTIL you scored the TD.... Come to think of it, you wouldn't even have to spend a re-roll as he waited till AFTER your action to call it!

Having said all that, here is what I think (sans the house rule): As long as the two of you hadn't moved to the next turn (i.e. removed players from their present positions at the time of the TD), you should put the BG back at his starting square and make the roll.... So, no TD....

IMHO, though, there are more issues with your opponent than fairness.... Anyone that goes strokin' for IPs to prevent a loss isn't much on gamesmanship....

[sean newboy]

Mojo's last point was a good one. Your opponent still waited until after the td, im personally of the opinion that a new ip should be created. An ip should be called on any coach who waits until an action is completed to call an ip. Did your ogre have any rolls other than bonehead to make the td?

[Ghost of Pariah]

My league used IP for anything done incorrectly. Forgetting Boneheads, forgetting turn markers, forgetting to move WA's, etc. It works well. Very few people need more than a turn over or two to remind them forever.

I know a majority of coaches here hate IP but it works. It works very well. It's a rarity in my league that people forget to move their markers. Everyone has a nasty burn to remind them how important it is.

[Skummy]

I totally agree, here. As a player unused to the strict enforcement, I was called for IP no less than 4 times in my first league game. I still managed to win, but it was a very close thing. Belive me, I don't forget to move it any more.

[DoubleSkulls]

My league used IP for anything done incorrectly. Forgetting Boneheads, forgetting turn markers, forgetting to move WA's, etc.

I must admit to not liking this at all. What about "forgetting" to dodge? Is that an IP?

IP is a reasonable mechanism to ensure that the correct number of turns are played in a game.

Using them instead of playing the rules of the game is not a good solution.

[martynq]

I agree with Ian. (Don't I always?)

Otherwise could I not see my ogre with the ball who just needs to move into the endzone to score in the last turn and note that I have a re-roll spare. I move my ogre in without rolling for Bonehead, my opponent declares an illegal procedure, I hand over my re-roll counter and the TD stands. Very much against the spirit of the rules this one!

Martyn

[Khrage]

Did anyone take into consideration that his opponent was probably waiting to see if he failed the Go For it and injured himself before calling him on it? That was my first thought, though I must admit I am a suspicious B*stard. In that way he is being the worst of Rule Nazis. Abusing the rules to benefit himself.

The way I look at it, the opponent is just as responsible for playing the game correctly as the owner of the Ogre. After the Go For It was rolled, I would rule that you can't take back the Bone Head. He scored...suck it up and move on. After all if he had failed the Go For It and died, would you have let him say.."oh wait, I forgot my bone head. I have to take all of that back."? I sure wouldn't.

This wouldn't happen in our league though, as you have to declare your action first, if he then proceeded to move without the bone head we would stop him before he even got to the ball. Same thing goes on a blitz. But then we have a very polite league (at least durring the game anyway).

[Indigo]

Otherwise could I not see my ogre with the ball who just needs to move into the endzone to score in the last turn and note that I have a re-roll spare. I move my ogre in without rolling for Bonehead, my opponent declares an illegal procedure, I hand over my re-roll counter and the TD stands. Very much against the spirit of the rules this one!

In this case, if I used a TRR to cancel the IP that was called, then I would still have to re-roll bonehead, I couldn't automatically get the TD. Then again, having thought about it this violates the rules on not using TRR on big guys...

It's an interesting one ->

1) We can't use re-rolls to re-roll Bonehead
2) If we forget BH and get called IP for it, we CAN use a TRR to cancel out the IP and we must then make the BH roll. Failing a BH ISN'T a turnover.

In our league, it got to the point where no-one was remembering bonehead at all.


Think about it, in my example I moved 5, made a "Go-For-It" roll and scored. In this case it was the end of the game, but what if we setup for a kick off, only for my opponent to remember later - do we put it all back the way it was?

IMO, if bonehead is forgotten and not called by your opponent (regardless of whether it's an IP), as soon as an action finishes, such as scoring a touchdown, then it stands. It represents the fact that your Ogre is more awake than your opponent...

Fair enough, sportsmanship ethics could merit taking it back, but I know I wasn't out to cheat him... honest mistake.

[Ghost of Pariah]

My league used IP for anything done incorrectly. Forgetting Boneheads, forgetting turn markers, forgetting to move WA's, etc.

I must admit to not liking this at all. What about "forgetting" to dodge? Is that an IP?

IP is a reasonable mechanism to ensure that the correct number of turns are played in a game.

Using them instead of playing the rules of the game is not a good solution.

No no. That's not how it works. You don't 'forget' to dodge. It's right there in your face! How can you forget that? If somebody didn't see that they needed to dodge they were able to be called for IP but that doesn't get them out rolling the dodge. Why would it? You call them for IP, you tell them that they didn't roll the dodge. They roll the dodge and then, no matter the dodge outcome, it's a turnover unless they spend a re-roll.

You can say that it's too harsh and "Nazi" like all you want but in my league we don't have problems like this. People get burned once and remember what how to play the game.
I'm presenting a system that I know works. It's tough but how else are you going to solve the problem? If you let people get away with forgetting to roll Boneheads soon you are letting people get away with all kinds of nonsense and your league has disputed game after disputed game.
IP works. Can''t handle it? Go play Candy Land.

[Skummy]

Indigo: Congratulations! You've just won the "Most disturbing Avatar" prize.

[Munkey]

I think Pariahs IP ruling would work even if it is a little harsh for some tastes (I have to admit to not liking IP very much anyway). It is bound to be very effective though.

Where care has to be taken to avoid abuse is if IP is used in this way but the proper rule is not then enforced. For example the 'forgotton' dodge in Ians example above. If a player forgets a rule he must be made to make the roll or follow it as stated in the rules otherwise unscrupulous players can avoid the rules when it suits them by accepting an IP instead.

One area where even Pariahs version may fall down (in some leagues at least) is that it still relies on the opponent to spot the rules infraction. Again unscrupulous players may not follow a rule in the hope of not being spotted and called.

Of course the best solution is to not play against players like this

[Ghost of Pariah]

No. Like I said, you must roll the 'forgotten' dodge (or whatever). You can't get out of rolling something by taking the IP. You get the IP, like it or not, in addition to the roll you are trying to avoid.

As for relying on the other person to spot the IP's...When it comes down to winning the game you'd be surprised how eagle eyed people can get!