What I've learnt from running a dark elf team in the MBBL

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:14 pm

There are always tactics articles around telling you what to do... here is what I've learnt about dark elves, specifically what not to do.

(1) I've mostly needed far more than two re-rolls. Perhaps I shouldn't have started with 2 blitzers, but instead gone for the all lineman starting lineup.

(2) Leap is basically useless on an AG4 player, since I always seem to roll a 2 on the first attempt and then a 1 on the re-roll.

With elves, you should always wait for the player who has got AG+1 to give Leap to. Dodge is the best first skill for a Blitzer.

(3) Don't try to play a passing game with dark elves as your default... I should try to practice the running game more. Play matches coaching a rookie chaos team and then adapt the techniques for your elves.

(4) You need someone with Dauntless.

(5) The line-elf with Leader always seems to be the first player to suffer an injury.

(6) The line-elf with Guard always seems to be next.

(7) Avoid playing in a league containing so many excellent coaches if you don't want to be humiliated frequently as you learn about your mistakes.

More words of (lack of) wisdom potentially in the future.

Martyn

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 1:23 pm

I agree with most of this

Some comments

1 I believe 1 position player is the max on an Elf team - unless you are playing a one off game.

2 I agree with Leap - you don't have enough rerolls to use on this. Also early on, Leap is not a major help when breaking a cage since you don't have any other skills to back it up.

3 Play run, run and pass if you can't be intercepted and there is a good chance of keeping the ball even if you fail the pass. Of course ensure you try to get SPPs by doing the pick up quick pass routine

4 Agreed

5 & 6.... depends I might go for the Guard first or the passer....... Otherwise its always wise to take down those players who are most vulnerable and will hurt the team - not having any blocking skills of their own makes the Leader and the Guard player vulnerable

7 Couldn't possibly comment on this!

8 Make sure you have an apoth early - sods law says that if you don't you will need it.

9 Spread your SPPs around and avoid suffering casualties where possible.

10 Play against Gobbos or Flings!

Dave

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 2:53 pm

Dangerous Dave wrote:3 Play run, run and pass if you can't be intercepted and there is a good chance of keeping the ball even if you fail the pass.

I have to say that I think that there are not enough articles out there about actually playing the game. There are lots about the easy stuff (which skills to take), but very little about actually where to move which players. I remember reading plenty of articles that say how easy it is to score with elves - yet I only managed 1 touchdown in my first 4 matches and that was a really lucky one against Deathwing which required rolls of something like 6+, 2+, 2+, 3+, 2+ and 2+ to succeed.

not having any blocking skills of their own makes the Leader and the Guard player vulnerable

Yep, it just takes so long to actually get these players developed... and PBEM accentuates this with only about 1 match played every month. Just how long does it take to get at least 2 skills on all your elves?

7 Couldn't possibly comment on this!

Diplomat

8 Make sure you have an apoth early - sods law says that if you don't you will need it.

Yep, that was the first thing I did - straight after the first match. This was something I believe I did right!

10 Play against Gobbos or Flings!

Yep, definitely wise. Those were my only wins in Season 1.

Martyn

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 3:19 pm

Quote:
8 Make sure you have an apoth early - sods law says that if you don't you will need it.

Yep, that was the first thing I did - straight after the first match. This was something I believe I did right!

I think apoth purchase is one of the most common mistakes for a lot of coaches with new team types (i.e. never played b4). Certain teams (dwarf and orc notably) dont need them off the bat, other teams (elves) cant afford them. Others have to have them on game one (stuntys and skaven). This isnt really about de or how martyn is playing them, just something it made me think about.

lawquoter · Post by **lawquoter** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:10 am

I went with 1 passer, 2 blitzers, linemen, and witch. 1 rr (boy was that a freakin' mistake!), a decent FF, and an apoth. Results: The Apoth has been a MASH unit, the witch has developed nicely into an AG 5 player, but, for how much longer, who can say. She's got a big ol' target on her breastplate.

The passer was a waste, this is supposed to be a running team, and the lack of catch really reinforces this. The team is winless with 2 ties, and I don't think I'm that bad of a coach, but I've fouled this whole team up. If I had to do all over again, I would go with all linemen, and defintely multiple rrs. This would ensure I spread the spps out (rather than depending on the positional players as I tend to do sometimes). The blitzers I'd take next, and then the witches. I don't think I'd take a passer until the team was really established and could develop a passing game as a changeup to throw at an unsuspecting Defense.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:37 pm

Law brings up a good point for any elf coach. With ag 4, any player can move the ball, be it td's or throws or catches, dont be afraid to let a lineelf take the ball.

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:46 pm

One thing I've realized that I struggle with is against teams with ST4 or higher players in it. These teams cause me more problems than anything else. I think I remember someone on this list (Marcus or Ian possibly?) say that this is why many people don't know how to beat lizzies, and I would definitely say I've not really worked out how to deal with plenty of ST against me.

Martyn

lawquoter · Post by **lawquoter** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 3:03 pm

I agree completely. I don't what causes this, but when I face a team with St 4 players in it (i.e. Orc), I tend to roll plenty of 1s when I hope to dodge, or do anything else agile, for that matter, and the other side rolls plenty of 9+ when they roll AV. Natural phenomena? the unexplained? I think it's my own personal twilight zone.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:13 pm

sean newboy wrote:Law brings up a good point for any elf coach. With ag 4, any player can move the ball, be it td's or throws or catches, dont be afraid to let a lineelf take the ball.

You should meet my HE's. 6 failed "2+"'s in 3 turns

lawquoter · Post by **lawquoter** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:47 pm

Ouch.

I feel your pain darkson. I'm haunted by 1s, but I don't think I've been that snake bit before.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:54 pm

I know how u feel, in pdhbbl my vamps have rolled 4 1's for hypnotic gaze.

Asmodan · Post by **Asmodan** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:41 am

Darkson wrote

You should meet my HE's. 6 failed "2+"'s in 3 turns

Maybe you should meet my HE team.
They always rolls 1 when they try to pass and dodge, not to mention picking up the ball.
Because of this they lost 4-1 to some gobbos last time i played with them!!!

Asmodan

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 11:22 am

martynq wrote:I have to say that I think that there are not enough articles out there about actually playing the game. There are lots about the easy stuff (which skills to take), but very little about actually where to move which players.

I've been thinking about that myself actually. I've got the skeleton together for a "Bloodbowl 101 Playbook" Article for the NAF site. Planning to go over a few basic plays, and the throughts behind them.

I'm convinced that the most telling sign of a good coach is their sense of field position. There's very little info out there on how to actually use your players well, and certainly none that I've found for the current ruleset.

Part of the problem is that many coaches think about what they want to do in their own turn but not what their opponent will do in theirs. It's not really a skill you can teach, only one you can learn by experience, but there are a few "tricks of the trade" you can use to get you in the right frame of mind.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 11:55 am

It came very naturally to me, think it was the many hours i spent playing chess. You have to think from both perspectives.

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:39 pm

I'd be very interested in seeing this article Marcus. If it's going on the NAF website is it only available to people who have joined the NAF?

(I'm still trying to work out if its worth joining or not - I don't see myself being able to go to any whole weekend tournaments for one thing.)

As a reply to Grumbledook, I tended to find I wasn't that good at playing chess. I tended to play by instinct too much rather than really analyzing the positions. It didn't help that we had one of the youngest ever International Masters at our school, so you often ended up demoralized when you played against him.

Martyn