Proposal of a new team

[skinlee78]

Sorry, don't know where to put it.
My best friend created this team a few years back.
He was a big Blood Bowl and Warhammer fan, but unfortunattely he died a few years back.
So, i would like to propose a new team. But not sure where to start. It would be perfect if it could be an official one someday, but i think that will be a hard way.
Can you please look at the roster, maybe play a few games and give your comments about it.

TREEMAN TEAMS
Qty. Title Cost MA ST AG AV Picks Skills
0-12 Saproling 60,000 5 3 2 8 G Thick Skull
0-2 Ent Thrower 80,000 6 3 3 8 G,P Sure Hands, Thick Skull
0-4 Dryad 70,000 7 2 3 7 G,A Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty
0-2 Dendroid Warrior 120,000 3 5 1 9 G,S Block, Stand Firm, Thick Skull

Re-roll Counter: 60,000

Any tip how to make a team official is also really appreciated.

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Update 22 July 2010

Untill now, with all the comments and stuff, i'm coming up to this:

0-2 Blockers: Dendroid Warriors 110K 3 5 1 9 Stand Firm, Thick Skull S (GAP) (Mummy -Mighty Blow, -Regenerate +Stand Firm, +Thick Skull)
0-16 Linemen: Dryad 50K 5 3 2 8 Thick Skull G (SAP) (Orc lineman -Ag -Av +Skill)
0-2 Throwers: Ent Thrower 70K 6 3 3 8 Sure Hands, Thick Skull GP (SA) (Human Thrower -Pass +Thick Skull)
0-4 Catchers: Saproling 60K 7 2 3 7 Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty A (GSP) (Goblin +1Mv +10K)
Tree Surgeon: 50K (Apo) (With thanks to IronJaw)
Reroll 60K

8 best players (2 blockers, 2 throwers, 4 catchers) is total 600K
12 players (+4 linemen) will give 800K with 3 RR and 2 FF i'm out of money. rating 100

With LRB 4 1 big guy Treeman is allowed
With LRB 5 1 Treeman is included in the teamroster

For the non readers, Dryad and Saproling names are switched now, because of a excisting starplayer which is pretty simulair to the dryads now (Willow Rosebark 5/4/3/8 Loner, Dauntless, Sidestep, Thick Skull). 3 or more votes for the name change, so i'm ok with that. Saproling sound indeed more like a halfling then some strong linemen your meeting .
I only changed a little per charactar, looking for a balance between playeble and the original my good friend came up with ones. So, I hope the second proposal i'm doing here, is a keeper.
(still missing the forest folks haha)
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Hope you can comment the proposal. I just liked it to be near the original, and be a good team to play with. So still any comment i'm openminded about, although i really would keep the essence of the team.

Thanks again all of you!!
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Update 24 July 2010

Last updated proposal, compared with the original roster. I like it to be honest

TREEMAN TEAMS
Qty. Title Cost MA ST AG AV Picks Skills
0-16 Dryad 50,000 5 3 2 8 G Thick Skull
0-2 Ent Thrower 80,000 6 3 3 8 G,P Sure Hands, Pass, Thick Skull
0-4 Saproling 70,000 7 2 3 7 A Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty (General skill removed)
0-2 Dendroid Warrior 120,000 3 5 1 9 S Stand Firm, Thick Skull, Throw Team Mate (Block removed, General skill removed)
Tree Surgeon: 50K (Apo) With thanks to IronJaw
Re-Roll: 60K

[Ironjaw]

Firsy off mate, like the idea.- it's original and fun.

Some observations:
A Mummy is 110k and is 3/5/1/9 without General access (but mighty blow and regenerate), so to have the equivolent with Block, stand firm, thick skull and general access for 10k more is not going to work. With this in mind, I'd suggest that the "Dendroid Warriors" are changed to:

3/5/1/9 Stand Firm, Thick Skull, S, 110K. This puts them on par with the Mummys (replacing Mighty Blow/Regen with Stand Firm/Thick Skull)

The naming doesn't really match the Fluff for Dryads, plus, I believe there is a Dryad star player (Named Willow Rosebark) with the following stats: 5/4/3/8 Loner, Dauntless, Sidestep, Thick Skull. I'd suggest using this for your Dryad as a base, but perhaps remove the Skills and 2 Ag points. This would give them:

5/4/1/8 Thick Skull, S/G, 80k I think sounds about right (making them the same as a black orc, 1 more MV, 1 less AV, 1 less AG + thick skull)

You can then easily replace the Dryad stat into the Saproling stat (sounds like a stunty) so,

7/2/3/7 Stunty, Dodge, Right stuff A, 50k: So this becomes a skink with 1 less MV. You can't give a stuny General Access as loads of blodging stunties would be too overpowered.

Id would remove the thrower and have a blitzer class:

Young Branch: 6/3/2/8 Block, Dauntless, Thick Skull G, S 80k Dauntless as a young tree wouldn't be scared of anything.

This also has the great scale of the older the tree, the slower but stronger the tree.

This makes team composition:

0-2 Dendroid Warriors: 3/5/1/9 Stand Firm, Thick Skull S 110K
0-4 Dryads: 5/4/1/8 Thick Skull, S 80k
0-2 Young Branches: 6/3/2/8 Block, Dauntless, Thick Skull, GS 80k
0-16 Saproling: 7/2/3/7 Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff A 50k
Tree Surgeon: 50k (apo)
Re Rolls: 70k

So a starting League Roster would be somthing like:
2 Dendroid Warriors: 220
4 Dryads: 320
2 Young Branches: 160
3 Saprolings: 150
2 Rerolls: 140
10k spare

[Darkson]

Look here for help: http://www.midgardbb.com/BloodBowlPlayers.html

However, ST4 and Block on a rookie player are a big NO-NO for player design, so ST5 and Block is a shouted NOOOOOO.

[skinlee78]

Your right both, and making me excited about what the team could be.
I'm sorry, i didn't invented the team, but my friend even converted some Warhammer pieces to play his treeman bloodbowl team.
Original, they kicked the shit out of my undead team, so i' know it need some balance.

I would suggest, after the new proposel:

0-1 Treeman 120K 2 6 1 10 S Loner, Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, Strong Arm, Take Root, Thick Skull, Throw Team-Mate
0-2 Dendroid Warriors 110K 3 5 1 9 S Stand Firm, Thick Skull
0-4 Dryads 90K 4 4 2 8 GS Thick Skull,
0-2 Young Branches 80K 5 3 2 8 GS Block, Dauntless, Thick Skull
0-2 Ent Thrower 60K 6 2 3 7 GP Sure Hands, Pass
0-16 Saproling 50K 7 2 3 7 A Dodge, Stunty
Tree Surgeon: 50k (apo)
Re Rolls: 70k

I already included LRB 5 Treeman, and it look awfully right looking at strengt the younger, the better, the older the stronger.

Sorry, this is without calculationsheets, just a feeling.

[plasmoid]

I think these guys need some serious pruning

Compare to a tier 1 team like lizardmen.
For 1MA off the linemen you're getting a lot of extra strength, skills and a thrower.
Yikes.

Or compare to khemri. Why would anyone play khemri?

Consider:
8 positionals + 1 big guy is the standard.
Your best 11 players should come in around 850-950K

I'd reduce Dryads to 0-2 (80K) and ditch the young branches.

Cheers
Martin

[Kort]

Also, the Ent Thrower should definitely cost no more than 50k, since it is essentially a Human thrower with -ST and -AV.

[Aliboon]

Ummm, i think you're making the team even stronger, 4 x ST4, 2x ST5 and a ST6! That would beat the crap out of any team!

Going back to the original concept:

TREEMAN TEAMS
Qty. Title Cost MA ST AG AV Picks Skills
0-12 Saproling 60,000 5 3 2 8 G Thick Skull ok, pricey but not at all overpowered
0-2 Ent Thrower 80,000 6 3 3 8 G,P Sure Hands, Thick Skull ok, again a bit pricey-compare to human thrower@ 70k
0-4 Dryad 70,000 7 2 3 7 G,A Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty ok, but stunties shouldn't get G access
0-2 Dendroid Warrior 120,000 3 5 1 9 G,S Block, Stand Firm, Thick Skull overpowered, block, G access and ST5

So out of those, only the Dendroid Warrior is overpowered and the dryads shouldn't get G access.

Like Ironjaw, I'd swap the saproling and dryad's names-Willow Rosebark 5/4/3/8 Loner, Dauntless, Sidestep, Thick Skull, is pretty much what a star player dryad would look like, +ST, +AG + 2 skills. I might even try them with A access given their 60k price tag, low AG and that Willow has side-step. I can't see it overpowering them.

Saproling, sort of a cross between sapling and halfling, a stunty works well.

The Ent Thrower is a quicker, more agile Dryad, so the stat line is fine, maybe even give them pass to make them more of a thrower and more worth their 80k price tag. Maybe even add A access to keep with the dryad skill access set, again shouldn't overpower them.

Saproling just loses G access.

Now the Dendroid Warrior, they seem like a younger treeman, so the statline is fine, but no block and no G access. 110k (again same reasoning as Ironjaw).

Then maybe add a treeman so that the saprolings can use right stuff and that it's fluffy. It might be overpowering though-3 reliable, albeit slow high ST players might be too much. If not, let them induce Deeproot. Or swap the Dendroid Warriors with treemen.

So:

TREEMAN TEAMS
Qty. Title Cost MA ST AG AV Picks Skills
0-16 Dryad 60,000 5 3 2 8 G A Thick Skull
0-2 Ent Thrower 80,000 6 3 3 8 G,P, A Sure Hands, Pass, Thick Skull maybe pass or A access
0-4 Saproling 70,000 7 2 3 7 A Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty
0-2 Dendroid Warrior 110,000 3 5 1 9 S Stand Firm, Thick Skull
0-1 Treeman 120k

I quite like the idea of giving most of the team A access as it makes them unique as a low AG agility team...But I think that if they did get it, it would definitely mean no treeman, or that the dendroid warriors would be swapped with a couple of treemen as otherwise I think it would overpower.

That means the best team comes in at 960k, so I'd make the rerolls a bit cheaper, say 50k to start with.

[Kort]

TREEMAN TEAMS
Qty. Title Cost MA ST AG AV Picks Skills
0-16 Dryad 60,000 5 3 2 8 G A Thick Skull
0-2 Ent Thrower 80,000 6 3 3 8 G,P, A Sure Hands, Pass, Thick Skull maybe pass or A access
0-4 Saproling 70,000 7 2 3 7 A Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty
0-2 Dendroid Warrior 110,000 3 5 1 9 S Stand Firm, Thick Skull
0-1 Treeman 120k

Dryad is a Zombie +MA +Thick Skull - Regeneration, with A access, which is not worth much when combined with AG2 and rather surprising. 50k would be a fairer price as is, or remove A access and make them 40k. You can also give them AG3 and keep the 60k price.
The Human Thrower is undercosted but that roster deserves the price break since their Catcher is clearly overcosted. It the Ent Thrower gains Pass (or A access), it should arguably cost 90k, especially since the team has a potential receiver on the one hand and so much strength on the other hand. Otherwise, 80k is fine albeit slightly ovrpriced.
Saprolings are overcosted compared to Skinks. There is not good reason to make them +10k when they have actually -MA. I would go for 60k, even if it is slightly overpriced.
Dendroid are powerful but fine as they are.

I would start at 60k for the team rerolls, to be adapted after testing. With no Block at start, the team will definitely have to rely on them.

[Alamar]

So:

<snip>

TREEMAN TEAMS
Qty. Title Cost MA ST AG AV Picks Skills
0-16 Dryad 60,000 5 3 2 8 G A Thick Skull
0-2 Ent Thrower 80,000 6 3 3 8 G,P, A Sure Hands, Pass, Thick Skull maybe pass or A access
0-4 Saproling 70,000 7 2 3 7 A Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty
0-2 Dendroid Warrior 110,000 3 5 1 9 S Stand Firm, Thick Skull
0-1 Treeman 120k

I'm not sure I 100% like the team because the good players may be a whisker too bashy for my tastes on the LOS. Basically you've got the start of another Khemri team with more MV & higher AG which addresses some of the weak areas that Khemri has.

What would you think about making the Dendroid Warriors STR4 with GS access?? Basically a less agile Flesh Golem. I have a problem seeing how anyone could really complain about that. Maybe then you could compensate a little but lowering the cost on the Dryads to save $ and TV and still be reasonable in my book.

Thoughts??

BTW: If you like the team as is and your friends are cool with it then play what you like and don't listen to anyone else

[Kort]

This team is more like Undead than Khemri, since it has only 2 non-Big Guy ST5 players.

[skinlee78]

TREEMAN TEAMS
Qty. Title Cost MA ST AG AV Picks Skills
0-16 Dryad 60,000 5 3 2 8 G A Thick Skull
0-2 Ent Thrower 80,000 6 3 3 8 G,P, A Sure Hands, Pass, Thick Skull maybe pass or A access
0-4 Saproling 70,000 7 2 3 7 A Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty
0-2 Dendroid Warrior 110,000 3 5 1 9 S Stand Firm, Thick Skull
0-1 Treeman 120k

Yea, I did give it some time to think about, and getting back to the original plan is what i prefer. So your proposal looks pretty ok to me.

Besides that, i will keep the names for the 4 different players. Cost and skills i really have to recalculate when i have the time for it, but i would prefer to keep the line-up like it is proposed here above

0-2 Blockers: Dendroid Warriors 110K 3 5 1 9 Stand Firm, Thick Skull S (GAP) (Mummy -Mighty Blow, -Regenerate +Stand Firm, +Thick Skull)
0-16 Linemen: Dryad 50K 5 3 2 8 Thick Skull G (SAP) (Orc lineman -Ag -Av +Skill)
0-2 Throwers: Ent Thrower 70K 6 3 3 8 Sure Hands, Thick Skull GP (SA) (Human Thrower -Pass +Thick Skull)
0-4 Catchers: Saproling 60K 7 2 3 7 Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty A (GSP) (Goblin +1Mv +10K)
Tree Surgeon: 50K (Apo) (With thanks to IronJaw)
Reroll 60K

8 best players (2 blockers, 2 throwers, 4 catchers) is total 600K
12 players (+4 linemen) will give 800K with 3 RR and 2 FF i'm out of money. rating 100

With LRB 4 1 big guy Treeman is allowed
With LRB 5 1 Treeman is included in the teamroster

I read somewhere that the linemen always has to be the player with the lowest cost of the team, that's correct?
Besides that, i know i can play with friends whatever we like to, but i would love to have this team someday as an official, so thats why i'm asking you guys (and girls) for advise.

Thanks again for all the input. I will post again in a short time to post the team after calculations. Are there tools for player creation somewhere? The link which was posted earlier are more guidelines, not really something you can calculate with.

[Ironjaw]

I think these guys need some serious pruning

Compare to a tier 1 team like lizardmen.

Compare it to a tier 1 team like Orcs though (without the treeman) and it's probably a bit weaker...

[plasmoid]

The version in post #4, with 1 ST6, 2 ST5 and 4 ST4?
And reasonably fast and mobile linemen.
Nope, they don't look weaker than orcs to me. (Besides (IMO) orcs are tier0).

Cheers
Martin

[Aliboon]

I'm not sure I 100% like the team because the good players may be a whisker too bashy for my tastes on the LOS. Basically you've got the start of another Khemri team with more MV & higher AG which addresses some of the weak areas that Khemri has.

What would you think about making the Dendroid Warriors STR4 with GS access?? Basically a less agile Flesh Golem. I have a problem seeing how anyone could really complain about that. Maybe then you could compensate a little but lowering the cost on the Dryads to save $ and TV and still be reasonable in my book.

Dryad is a Zombie +MA +Thick Skull - Regeneration, with A access, which is not worth much when combined with AG2 and rather surprising. 50k would be a fairer price as is, or remove A access and make them 40k. You can also give them AG3 and keep the 60k price.
The Human Thrower is undercosted but that roster deserves the price break since their Catcher is clearly overcosted. It the Ent Thrower gains Pass (or A access), it should arguably cost 90k, especially since the team has a potential receiver on the one hand and so much strength on the other hand. Otherwise, 80k is fine albeit slightly ovrpriced.

Yeah, I can see that the dryads are (and saprolings look) too expensive, but I wasn't wanting to overpower the team with cheapish players and a rock hard front line. I'm now thinking that 3 ST5-6 players with few negatraits would be a khemri mark 2 without their weaknesses.

Kort, I can't really agree with you re: the Ent's price-you say the human thrower is undercosted, but that works out because of the overcosted catchers, but then you say that the saprolings are overcosted so doesn't that slightly negate your argument!? Thick Skull isn't worth 10k as a starting skill imo (unlike pass), does anyone ever pick it as a skill choice? (I do agree with you about the team being (too) strong, if it has the Treeman).

I'd be wary of speeding up the Saproling if they keep Right Stuff-it might make 1-turner's too easy imo, especially as the Tree (as long as he doesn't have to move) wont fail to throw the player (save a fumble) and won't try to eat the player's they're throwing-(that is also why they are so expensive in comparison with skinks).

Having thought about it a bit more, I think that the Treeman and the 2 ST5 Dendroid warriors would make the team too strong. So either the warriors go down to ST4 like Alamar says or remove the Tree (but I wouldn't want to remove the TTM capability, so instead I'll add that to the Dendroid warriors).

As I'd want to try and keep the original roster as far as possible:

0-2 Blockers: Dendroid Warriors 120K 3 5 1 9 Stand Firm, Thick Skull, Throw Team Mate S (GAP) (Mummy -Mighty Blow, -Regenerate +Stand Firm, +Thick Skull +Throw Team Mate)
0-16 Linemen: Dryad 50K 5 3 2 8 Thick Skull G (SAP) (Orc lineman -Ag -Str +Skill)
0-2 Throwers: Ent Thrower 80K 6 3 3 8 Sure Hands, Pass, Thick Skull GP (SA) (Human Thrower +Thick Skull +10K)
0-4 Catchers: Saproling 70K 7 2 3 7 Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty A (GSP) (Goblin +1Mv +30K)
60k rerolls

Agility access could be added to the Ents and the Dryads, (although this is a departure from the original teamsheet) although I would probably increase the Ent's cost to 90k then.

[skinlee78]

So basically, really start with the original form it will be look like this

TREEMAN TEAMS
Qty. Title Cost MA ST AG AV Picks Skills
0-16 Dryad 50,000 5 3 2 8 G Thick Skull
0-2 Ent Thrower 80,000 6 3 3 8 G,P Sure Hands, Pass, Thick Skull
0-4 Saproling 70,000 7 2 3 7 A Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty (General skill removed)
0-2 Dendroid Warrior 120,000 3 5 1 9 S Stand Firm, Thick Skull, Throw Team Mate (Block removed, General skill removed)

I think it is great. Gonna try it soon i guess with Skijunki's client, so if someone is interested
But really love it. Think my friend Peter would agree if he could.

Oh, to make it a little clearer. My friend created this team in the time of Living Rulebook 2. Around that time there wasn't any Khemri team. Amazon, Norse and Lizardmen where just introduced if i'm correct (I don't have LRB1 )