High Elves vs Hitting Teams - Tactics

[bradw71]

OK, I will include a specific example here, as per the sticky note on the main page

I am playing a High Elf team in a league. The league consists of 8 teams:
* High Elves (me!)
* Amazon
* Chaos Warriors
* Khemri
* Orcs
* Chaos Dwarves
* Skaven
* Necromantic

As you can see, with the exception of the Elves and Amazon (and perhaps the Skaven, but their Storm Vermin and Rat Ogre make me think otherwise...) the league is full of hitting teams.

How the %$!# do Elves consistently play defence, game after game, against consecutive hitting teams? Sure, the first game might be OK (on average), but what about the next game when you are missing players etc??? My casualty count at the moment after 12 games is 7 to 35!!!

To give you an example of how bad it can be. Last night I played the Chaos Warriors team. I had 14 players, he had 10. My TR167, his 156. With his handicap roll, he got "Mickey Finn" and took out my apothecary, not a good start...

Unfortunately I kicked off to him in the first turn. As he has the advantage with his strength (relatively speaking), he is in no rush to get the touch down. With only 3 strength, and trying to gang up to get 2D blocks, it is almost impossible for me to get to the ball. He get's lucky rolls, takes out players...making it even harder.

Anyway, as the second half draws to a close with a 1-1 score line, he doesn't make any attempt to score. Why? Because he %$!# well knows that if it goes into the second half, he will pummel the few remaining Elves, get more SPP's, I won't have a chance of scoring (if I fielded all eligible elves, it would be 5 players to 9) and still win. The only thing I could do was put the minimum of 3 players on the LoS. Eventual score 2-1 to the Chaos Warriors. 1 death, 2 Badly Hurt - Miss Next games and many KO's and Badly Hurts for the Elves.

I hope I don't sound like a whiner. They don't do particularly badly in tournaments that you see the results of. In a one-off game against other teams they are great. How do you maintain it after subsequent games? And how do you play effective defense against a hitting team?

[Grumbledook]

Best advice that springs to mind (without having ever coached elves) is to dodge away with players leaving him with hopefully no blocks, so he has to blitz and only has one a turn. Take 2 dice blocks where you can if it can save you dodging away, but only as long as he won't be in a position to hit back next turn, so push and don't follow up. You might get lucky on some of the armour rolls.

Elves are more of an offensive side than defensive, so don't risk your team in order to stop them scoring. Keep players nearby to take advantage of any turnovers. Position yourself each turn with players spread out, if he isn't paying attention you might be able to get at the ball carrier. Its harder to cover from every side than just one. Get the ball if you can but like i said don't risk your team in order to do so. Lastly try not to leave too many players alone, some you will have to, but keeping them in pairs means they have less squares they can do a 1 die blitz off.

[lawquoter]

Well, I'll give you what advice I can, I've played HE quite a bit, and I still find them incredibly challenging. What are your strengths? You are more mobile and agile than any other team in the league. You can score relatively quickly, the maulers have to invest usually a half to get the ground game rolling to enable them to score. Where they do you in is when they clear your elves off the pitch, creating open space, and allowing the cage to rumble unimpeded. The thing that I've come to accept is that I cannot, barring unbelievable skill rolls (i.e., all +1 St), play superb D. In other words, I can't go into the game thinking I've got a great shot at a shut out or a 1 touchdown allowed. So I want to make the game a game of fast break bb. I want elves flying all over the pitch, I want a dragon warrior with leap, to crash the cage. Most of all, I want to take them out of their game plan by avoiding confrontation as much as possible. I want the fans to go to the Blood Bowl and see a track meet break out! How can this be accomplished? I like to make 'em dodge. I try to play a bend but don't break D. If they're going to have a shot at mauling you, make them use their 1 blitz. So you have to play off, and using your dragon warriors, circle the cage. I think Leap is really helpful, especially if you've harrassed them into a poorly secured cage. The game is in your favor, even if you give up the score, if you're even man, or only down 1 or 2. The faster they score, the better shape you'll be. The worst experiences I've had is when I received first and scored in about a quarter, and then they had the ball the last 12-14 turns. So, in sum, play off the mashers, try to let them hit you only once (with the blitz), dodge off after he uses his turn to close with you, and send your defensively developed players to the rear of the cage where you hopefully will cause chaos and with luck pop that ball out. Hope that helps.

[DoubleSkulls]

High Elf defence goes 1 of two ways.

#1 Develop a "War Dancer" i.e. Dragon with Leap & Strip Ball. Line elves take dodge first. You avoid contact and hope to knock the ball loose.

#2 Fight them! You've got reasonable Av, give Line elves Block 1st and then dodge. Try to get some guard and/or dauntless. Hope that you can somehow prise the ball loose by using your superior agility to concentrate your force more effectively.

#2 works until the strength teams are really skilled for murder (Piling On/MB all over the place) then you'll get massacred like everyone else.

[Munkey]

Strip Ball might be a useful skill to try (especially on a player with leap) as it gives you a good chance of disrupting the cage with a one dice block and if your opponent is scrambling after the loose ball he'll spend less time hitting you

Also you only need to put on enough pressure to make them not time waste because once you gain possesion after the TD you should be able to get a quick TD in 2-3 turns.

Kicking off is not too big a deal as you can score without fielding a full 11 players a lot of the time but if you can delay the score for a few turns at the start of a half without risking turning over possesion you may not give the other tea enough time to run it in again.

Good luck

[lawquoter]

I agree with Ian's #2. Dauntless and Guard will definetly allow you to bring some fight to the game. But I don't roll consistently well enough to stand toe to toe with the maulers. But I know I can outrun them.

[Thor]

I am currently playing HE in a leage. A few comments about playing a hard-hitting team:

1. Kicking off first is not bad. HE need more players for effective defense than offense. On offense, HE do not need 11 players to score.

2. In general, take 2 die blocks (without following up), and dodge away from your opponents so that at the end of your turn your opponent cannot block any of your players. This way he can only hit one of your players (at most) with his blitz action.

3. With the kick skill, kick deep and run up the flanks to get the ball carrier before he can get into the safety of a cage. Get your players between his ball carrier and his other players (the cage).

4. Keep some elves in front of, and to one side of, the cage, one space away from the opponent players. Attack cages from the rear, preferably with a DW. This makes it harder for the cage to progress down field while fighting defenders behind it.

5. Put TZs on your opponent's rear cage players. This either hinders his progression down field or causes him to make dodge rolls. Hard hitting teams will fail dodge rolls and burn re-rolls.

Good luck.

[Amon242]

I agree with Thor's theory of cage breaking. I have found its best to dodge out of the front line, although I like to put my guys two or three squares back to stretch the cage out a bit. Postion some guys in the tackle zones of the rear guys, making them block and stay stationary. This should stretch the cage enough to allow for an attack from either the side back or flank. Be sure to run a guy into scoring range, because if the ball gets loose, you want to be sure and have an immediate scoring option.

[bradw71]

Well I must admit, I am impressed that I received nothing but constructive replies, thanks for that.

I think one of the mistakes I have recently made is tending not to dodge players away, and therefore leaving far too many opportunities for the opposing team to have their blocks.

I have also been far too focused on trying to stop them scoring entirely, rather than accepting they may score, but rather trying to put pressure on the ball carrier, picking off any lone players etc.

I started the season with a 4 game losing streak, then had a 5 game winning streak which included Chaos, Khemri and Orcs. I think it was shortly after this (and I had a break from playing) that I went away from the 'dodge them away' approach and consequently started getting smashed. The opposition also had a lot of lucky rolls, but that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't given them the opportunity.

Thanks again for your constructive comments, hopefully I can stop the latest 3 game losing streak now

[Longshot]

It will be quite strange for some to hear that but, i prefer beeing on defence with my elves than in offense.
My defensive play is in 3 words:
Counter-attack
Counter-attack
Counter-attack