Underworld strategy advice - please help

[Catt]

I'm just about to start an Underworld team (The Evil Meanies) and have a question about thrower development.

Has anyone used, or considered using, dump-off on the throwers? Its exceptionally effective on my Dark Elf team but then they are AG4 and the Runner starts with the skill.

It's certainly not optimal skill development for a Skaven Thrower but I'm wondering how useful it might actually be - the pass skill makes up, to an extent, for being AG3 but then I guess you have no AG4 recievers. Also I assume animosity would still need to be rolled for?

[nazgob]

animosity would still be an issue.

that said, people tend to build the throwers as runners, so i would think that dump off could be a reasonable skill. after block. and fend.

[Catt]

animosity would still be an issue.

that said, people tend to build the throwers as runners, so i would think that dump off could be a reasonable skill. after block. and fend.

That was my thinking as well.

The problem is that dump-off is a sort of 'luxury' skill it's nice to have but there are more practical alternatives - which is why the Dark Elf runner is a somewhat undervalued player.

Two Skaven Throwers with Block, Nerves of Steel and Dump-off would be amazing on offence for Underworld but largely pointless on defence. I am guessing that Underworld is a team that can't afford such ultra-specialists?

[nazgob]

not too sure on that question to be honest, but i do have a problem with that build in terms of frequency of skill use.

nerves of steel and dump off are both of only limited use. personally, i find that nerves is very cool, but incredibly situational, while in normal play, coaches tend to protect the ball carrier in such a way that dump off is useless (e.g. ball carrier safe behind a cage) i could go for one NoS/Dump Off thrower, but at two, thats a lot of TV investiture.

[Catt]

not too sure on that question to be honest, but i do have a problem with that build in terms of frequency of skill use.

nerves of steel and dump off are both of only limited use. personally, i find that nerves is very cool, but incredibly situational, while in normal play, coaches tend to protect the ball carrier in such a way that dump off is useless (e.g. ball carrier safe behind a cage) i could go for one NoS/Dump Off thrower, but at two, thats a lot of TV investiture.

Exactly. Nerves of Steel is a skill that gets better the more you have of it (a bit like disturbing prescence as well). Which is why Elf teams are great with their 4 catchers.

Anyway as far as Underworld go you're right that two NoS/Dump Off Throwers would be a waste of TV and skills.

I had also thought about a HMP Thrower combined with a few Diving Catch Goblins dodging through the lines to sit in the oppositions back field. But again a bit specialist and whilst potentially very amusing not a brilliant use of skills!

Edit: also from reading this thread it appears you can't rely on skilling the Goblins enough before they die - so investing in diving catch would be good if you knew they'd survive to multiple skills but as they won't there are better choices available.

[Khail]

Hello folks,

I've got an Underworld team 5 games into their first season and I could use some advice. The team is 1 win, 1 tie, 3 losses (first 3 games were the losses). Despite the record, the team is developing nicely. All of the losses have been close, and the only damage to the team has been 2 unskilled gobbos and one with 3SPPs.

My last game (the win) was a 4-0 blowout where things finally just clicked, and I was able to put SPPs where I needed to. 5 advances out of that game.

The team looks like this currently:

W-Troll: Claw (9)
S-Vermin: (2)
S-Vermin: Guard (6)
Linerat: Wrestle (10)
Linerat: Wrestle (6)
Thrower: Block (10)
Thrower: Dodge (6)
Gobbo: Block, doubles roll (18)
Gobbo: (3)
5 rookie Gobbos (0)
3 RR
2 FF
Apoth
TV 125 (128 after choosing the doubles skill)

So yeah, I have the magical goblin. Doubles roll followed by a doubles roll. I'm not sure what to take. Initially I thought Guard was the right answer, but that's honestly just going to get him killed. Another Gobbo with Horns would make for awesome cagebreaking between the two of them, but I'm sure their lifespans would be short. I'm (amusingly) leaning towards Mighty Blow, then Claw if he survives to 31SPPs to build a goblin slayer (rofl?)... other options are just to skip the doubles and go for 2 heads. I don't have any other goblins that have advanced yet, so the team isn't yet getting to play like a traditional Underworld side, with gobbos that can get anywhere.

Question number 2. This team is playing in a scheduled league. My next few games are Dwarf, Lizardmen, Dwarf. Ugh. What do you suggest for linemen against the Dwarfs? I normally throw 3 unskilled gobbos up there, but that's going to be a quick road to the dead & injured box against Dwarfs.

[Smeborg]

Khail - have you considered Fend? Block is a defensive pick on a Gobbo, so Fend fits with this. Guard is tempting, though.

On the LoS against Dwarfs, I would be inclined to put the Troll and 2 Gobbos. You might like to consider Troll + the 2 Wrestle Linerats. Or even the 2 Linerats + the Block Gobbo. I once put Troll + 2 Storm Vermin on the LoS against Dwarfs. Both SVs became CAS on turn 1, as did a Linerat (on the blitz). Nice start to a game... I'm not sure there is a perfect answer to your question!

All the best.

[mattgslater]

LOS? Guard SV and the two Wrestlers. The Troll will get nuked on the LOS by a Slayer with two assists; at least the Guard SV will draw a Guard player up to the weakside "offensive guard" position, not like that does you any good. Maybe the rookie SV instead....

Goblin? No good advice here, sorry. Mighty Blow does sound funny, but not optimal. Fend isn't terrible; follow with Side Step, and you'll have a sturdy, annoying piece, if he makes it that far. Guard sounds more efficient to me.

[Smeborg]

LOS? Guard SV and the two Wrestlers.

I am very nervous every time I put Skaven players on the LoS. It's asking for trouble (1 or 2 of them will go straight into the dugout). Bear in mind that I rarely play with 6 Skaven - now that the league has matured, I am usually missing 1 or 2 Skaven for each game. Risking 3 out of 4 or 5 of your best players does not seem sensible to me, and has often failed in practice. I will sometimes put Skaven on the LoS, but only against weedy opposition, not against teams with any slayer skills. Normally I will put either 3 Gobbos, or 2 Gobbos and the long-suffering Troll (he doesn't know better...).

All the best.

[Ullis]

I'd forget about the doubles on the gobbo and take Horns (Dauntless is another option but costs more and is less reliable agains ST3). After that I'd find someone to kick me in the nuts for not taking Wrestle as the first double skill. Two Heads at 31 spp's. This gobbo will make your opponents sweat, even if you never blitz a ball carrier in a cage.

IF you had another gobbo with Horns, then I'd take Guard.

[mattgslater]

Normally, I'd agree. I just fear 87.5% so much I'd be afraid to put up rookie Gobs. If you're an underdog, you could induce Merc Gobs just for DL duty. Dwarfs have zero capacity to 3d against ST3 on the line.

But yeah, I guess 7/8 of a Gob is still worth less than 5/9 of a Rat.

[Khail]

Well, my first Dwarf game is done, and I emerged unscathed. His dice were fairly horrible (the extent of the damage done to my team was literally 1 KO'd goblin, whereas I took 3 dwarfs off the pitch), but he kept me to 1 TD.

Since we're only 6 games into the league he didn't have much in the way of damage skills yet. My line was my two wrestle linerats and my unskilled blitzer.

This ended up with a few stuns, but nothing more serious thankfully.

The goblin having guard came in handy a couple of times.

Why do you wish harm upon my nuts Ullis? Wrestle is definitely a valid option, and arguably superior for a goblin, but early on in the league I don't think it's vastly better than Block. And now that he's got Guard, I'm definitely happier with Block than I would have been with Wrestle.

[Carnis]

I liked your MB/Claws idea .

It'd have freed one of your vermins for other duties & kept the player alive longer.

Still, you are likely better off with guard.

[Khail]

I did too, heh. Oh well, I decided to stick with conventional and boring instead of awesome. I'm still learning the team

[Smeborg]

I played my first game with a Horned Gobbo last night (he also had 2-Heads), against Norse. He was awesome, and won the game by himself. First he sacked the opposing ball carrier (another 2-Heads Gobbo provided an assist). This left the Skaven Thrower free to scoop up the ball and pass it upfield (he would otherwise have had to make the Blitz, as the only ST3 player available at that point). Later in the game, the Horned Gobbo punched through a packed defense to allow a Storm Vermin to score (which would otherwise have been quite difficult).

It seems that 2-Heads/Horns is a good combination (I did not once use it for cage-breaking). I spent the second half playing with 7 Gobbos on the field (and only 2 or 3 Skaven), most of the Gobbos were rookies, so the Horns made a huge difference. I think you need to develop the Gobbos with a view to how the team will perform when you are left with mainly Gobbos on the field. I think this is a good combo for those times (which seem to occur in most matches). You need to be able to threaten the ball with your Gobbos, otherwise you will just get stomped on.

All the best.