Skink with Block gets a double

[Greyhound]

What does a skink gets for second double when the team already has a sure hands guys?

Options I'd consider:
- Dauntless, to catch the slippery ball carriers, he has the speed, the Block skill... could be a good idea.
- Tackle, and give him diving tackle next
- Kick, the team needs one, he has the most chance to survive and keep it, while freeing the saurus to get more skills
- Shadowing. With MV8 and block I can park him next to a ball carrier and stick to that player. Side Step next, then diving tackle
- Guard - mobile assist anywhere
- Fend - solely for survivability.
- Strip Ball (also I would have preferred Wrestle on such guy)
- sure Hands again, a bit redundant but skinks die anyway
- Thick skull, a "not-very-good" idea but Skink do get a lot of KO.

[Drool_bucket]

I think knowing what your Saurus have would help... cause I would think Dauntless wouldn't be needed, cause I hope you have a Block/Break Tackle Saurus or two...

Guard is tempting, more so if you have a Frenzy Saurus. But Lizardmen have a lot of raw STR so its not the most needed skill...

I like some of your other stuff... but what about passing skill instead? (do skinks get that on a double?)

Nerves of Steel, while I've never seen one or played against such a skink, I know that skinks get marked a lot, especially the ones that are within 8 or so squares of a TD. This way you can make that hand off a lot easier with a TZ or two on you. The only loss is NoS won't work so well on the Stunty Passing attempts...

Hail Mary Pass? Against a Slower team if you get the ball out you can pitch it down field and then off to the races...

But in the end, you can never have too much Sure Hands skinks and Catch skinks in a Lizardmen team... Go Sure hands.

[Greyhound]

My saurus are standard-ish except an odd one which I'm building as a "test" considering he got -1AV early on, and I didn't have the cash to replace him.

• Krox unskilled
• Block Break Tackle
• Block Frenzy
• Block
• Block
• Break Tackle (-1AV)
• Unskilled

The-1AV Saurus has 2 MVP, and nearly at level to get him to get Juggernaut or wrestle, I gave him Break Tackle beacause I like the mobile assist, and I didn;t want him to stay "stuck" in a fight with his lower AV. He's now going to be my dedicated Wrestle/Juggernaut for the stand firm troubles (eventually Grab if he can survive that long).

Passing skill is meh because of Stunty. If I was to give a passing skill to anyone it would be to my sure hands guy. Sure hands means he's the most likely to pick up and therefore would often have to give the ball away.
A quick pass is 4+ with Stunty. If Block skink has the ball he's the best candidate to bring it over the line (less chance of falling), so I'd be unlikely to pass. I'd rather have him "catching" the ball, since he's the strongest and most likely to survive in the backfield of my opponent. I don't usually pass unless I'm 1 SPP short or I have a reroll and it's a "now or never" turn to score.

The other skinks are (in blue the skills I intend to give them next)

• MV9 Skink catch, sure feet
• Sure Hands Skink (-1MV) sure feet
• Side Step Skink diving tackle, jump up
• Block Skink ?, side step
• unskilled Skink

In the ideal world, in attack, the scorers are the Sure Hands/MV7 and MV9 skinks. The slower pick the ball and stays at the back while the fast one move in the cage of saurus. When the cage is in range, the slow but sure hands guy runs up to the cage, handoff and the quick skink scores.

The other 2 skinks on the pitch protect and assist the sure hands or distract my opponent my creating skink-blitz opportunities on them. That's why they have Side-step and Block, it's to survive their hard life of cheap and fast bodyguards.

In defence, it's farely similar:
I keep sure hands safe, ready to pick up the ball if I manage to pop it,
Fast skink stays close to the centre, ready to receive the ball and run off
Side-Step and Block skinks harass where the Saurus can't go.

[Greyhound]

I was just doing some silly maths about Thick skull.

I don't know how to display tables on the forum so here are the raw numbers for stunties:

Stun (without TS): 42%
KO (without TS): 31%
BH: 19%
SH: 8%

If you take Thick skull it becomes:
Stun (without TS): 56%
KO (without TS): 17%
BH: 19%
SH: 8%

It's still ridiculously high (27% to have an injury) but there is better control with Thick skull with a +14% chance to stay on the pitch, it kind of cancel Mighty Blow in terms of leaving the pitch.
If you consider the chances of being kicked out of the pitch by a MB player who managed to break AV without the skill against a TS the % are:
Stun 44%
KO: 14%
BH: 28%
SH: 14%

compared to without TS.
Stun 28%
KO 31%
BH 28%
SH 14%

I still wouldn't take the skill, but it shows that if you're a stunty being blocked by a nasty MB Blitzer with Tackle rolling high against your AV, thick skull can make a real difference.

[Carnis]

If you consider the chances of being kicked out of the pitch by a MB player who managed to break AV without the skill against a TS the % are:
Stun 44%
KO: 14%
BH: 28%
SH: 14%

compared to without TS.
Stun 28%
KO 31%
BH 28%
SH 14%

I still wouldn't take the skill, but it shows that if you're a stunty being blocked by a nasty MB Blitzer with Tackle rolling high against your AV, thick skull can make a real difference.

Except, as the TS skill works on 8s, not 9s or 7s it has no effect whatsoever against a player with MB and knockouts. If your opponent rolls a 6, he uses MB -> making the injury a KO due to stunty, if he rolls a 7 he doesnt use MB and the 7-stunty KOs your player (now an 8 would save your skink from a KO, but by just not using it here he sends you off regardless?).

Anyway, I'd probably take daunts, strip or guard.

[Ulthuan_Express]

I went for Block/Dauntless on a skink before, and the look on your opponent's face can be worth it alone. Not for the Ogre slaying, but certainly for the receiver hitting.

Having said that, though, Tackle with an assist makes him a great safety, especially if he survives long enough for Diving Tackle, too.

[Greyhound]

Except, as the TS skill works on 8s, not 9s or 7s it has no effect whatsoever against a player with MB and knockouts. If your opponent rolls a 6, he uses MB -> making the injury a KO due to stunty, if he rolls a 7 he doesnt use MB and the 7-stunty KOs your player (now an 8 would save your skink from a KO, but by just not using it here he sends you off regardless?).

Anyway, I'd probably take daunts, strip or guard.

I don't want to deviate too much as this skill was just a "fun" pick, not a real choice. You're correct, I've assumed he's used it regardless. There's an interesting result now that MB is better when NOT used on thick skulled stunty.

[Greyhound]

It feels like after Block you're already loading up TV on a player VERY likely to die soon. It's the curse of stunties, they need doubles, but it's really expensive... mmh I like shadowing but never take it, maybe it's the occasion with MV8

[Arklite]

you might want to consider strip ball in this situation. we are after all talking about a stunty player with block. there's a cage breaker if i ever did see one

[Greyhound]

I really wish I had given him wrestle if i do that!

[Smurf]

Shadowing, he's got sidestep. So it would be funny to watch him stick to a player. If you are luckly enough to get another double, get tackle.

[hancock.tom]

Strip ball actually makes 2d opponents favor blocks on the ball carrier worth it. That is where I would go. Taking shadowing followed by diving tackle then maybe sidestep would also be obnoxious, but overall I think strip has more utility. Kick isn't a bad idea but I would save that for a different skink

[Greyhound]

the trouble with strip ball is that it targets only every other team. It's useless with running teams who normally have sure hands and just stick the ball to the same guy the whole drive (dwarfs, khmeri) and is also defeated by the dump off.

I'm trying to make this double count, guard in that sense would always come handy, but he'd die early.

[TuernRedvenom]

the trouble with strip ball is that it targets only every other team. It's useless with running teams who normally have sure hands and just stick the ball to the same guy the whole drive (dwarfs, khmeri) and is also defeated by the dump off.

I'm trying to make this double count, guard in that sense would always come handy, but he'd die early.

Even against teams with a sure hands player strip ball is not wasted! It forces them to run the ball with their Sure Hands player. If you have kick you can pin him deep really easily (since his SH player needs to cover his whole backfield). It also makes sure he runs the ball with eg his SH beastman instead of his STR 5 Chaos Warrior.
I wouldn't even take dumpoff into account, it's not a very common skill and if you can force him to do a dumpoff you're already making him take (big) risks. Without Strip Ball your opponent probably wouldn't even use dump off on a half die block.

[Drool_bucket]

Even against teams with a sure hands player strip ball is not wasted!

This is spot on for all the reasons listed.

Plus, a lot of Sure Hands players have lower AV, meaning getting them off the pitch is more likely.

And while Strip Ball may not be awesome for one drive, that's why player targeting on your drive coupled with timely strategic fouling can leave a team without a Sure Hands player for a drive/half...