Vote: your opinion on wild animals

[solarflare]

Against AV7, you are looking at opponents without much strength, so his S5 should be a decent asset.

As for the horrible luck you guys are having, there's just not much you can do about that. An AG5 wardancer is worthless if all he ever does is roll 1s.

[narg]

As for the horrible luck you guys are having, there's just not much you can do about that. An AG5 wardancer is worthless if all he ever does is roll 1s.

Well the wardancer isn't a wild animal so you don't even need to roll to move him, and as he's not a loner if he rolls a 1 or a double skulls at least you can safely reroll, which greatly decreases his chances of triggering a turnover.
But I get your point, we were probably just unlucky. We'll see how it goes over the next few games...

[Asperon Thorn]

I think Carnis undervalued Rat Ogres, which I find is probably one of the best Big Guy compliments to a team.

The Rat Ogre provides:
a) Another AV 8 player to an AV 7 team.
b) Strength on the line.

But What is probably the most important part of the Rat Ogre is the Prehensile tail. Which is in effect whether or not the RO failed his Wild Animal roll.

Frankly, I truly miss the old old (LRB 3) Wild Animal Rules in which they could more easily win Or lose the game for you. . but whatever.

I didn't vote in the pole because my vote would be between the 1st and 2nd choices.

Asperon Thorn

[sunnyside]

I'm with Carnis on the Norse angle.

At low TV and against agility teams the troll is a big furry liability.

However in those situations Norse shine, and you should be able to carry him reasonably well. He's also somewhat useful in those situations as well. Blodge isn't so impressive when you throw six dice at it.

However without the troll there are builds out there that will just violate Norse, and having a troll with MB can dramatically change things.

You do, however, have to respect his shortcomings. Though if you roll a double he gets a lot nicer.

Also don't make it easy to knock him over. Snow Trolls shouldn't be on the line unless you're quite confident they aren't going over. Personally I like putting them right behind the line, so it gets a free block if they follow up. Of course they can use a chain push to still follow up without contacting the troll but:

A. This means they aren't making chain blocks, that probably saves you from an armor roll or two right there
B. If on the second or third block they don't roll a result with a push element they've got problems.

[mattgslater]

Personally I like putting them right behind the line, so it gets a free block if they follow up... his means they aren't making chain blocks, that probably saves you from an armor roll or two right there

Except inasmuch as they can chain-block the Snow Troll. But once you've got the Fend action going on across the line, there won't be any free assists.

[Spasmbot]

In my humble opinion it's worth mentioning when you get your big guy and what you use him for. A friend of mine who is a long time Chaos coach loves big guys and especially the Minotaur, he always includes him on his starting roster no matter what, and obviously there are games where he can get pretty frustrated.

I've been playing a Chaos team this season and I start with the 4 Warriors line up and got the mino later, he got niggled and then died after about 8 matches, my second one has only just recently got claw (And immediately ate up a treeman, woo!), although I do use him for game critical plays sometimes that wild animal mucks up I try to really not center my plays around him. What I find he's brilliant for is sucking up blocks and fouls, because of S5 it takes a fair bit of effort to put him down and usually leaves players standing around booting him in the head or beating him up! Which is great when you've got 4 Block/MB/PO warriors waiting to pound their heads in!

So what I'm getting at is probably that as all things with Blood Bowl it's worth considering a psychological factor, Wild Animal pieces are usually some of the more impressive figures out there and as such probably draw a lot of attention from their coaches, making the bad experiences, or the real star Wild Animals stick out way more.

By comparison a Slaan team in our league had this awesome Kroxigor that was a total PITA Guard/Standfirm would really muck up your action sometimes. But in terms of memorability everyone will remember the Minotaur "Ragnar the Destroyer" with claw and piling on much more vividly, moreso when he spent the whole match rolling around on his back crying.

[besters]

As far as the poll goes, I play skaven with the Rat Ogre, I tend to think he is neither central or optional, but somewhere between the two.

[Harry Buddha Palm]

I gave my rat ogre the boot and have not once missed him. In fact, I do better without him. When I had him, he spent most of the time KO'ed, injured, or MNG'ed. That was a lot of TV doing nothing. I'd use one if I were playing in a tournament, but in a league, I don't think they're worth it. Bashy teams can take them out too easily.

[inkpwn]

I have to disagree with spasmbat on intimidation factor. After playing dwarfs I tend to reckognise skills rather then strength as a threat.

Playing against 5 ogres I'm not intimidated but a wardancer is going to scare the crud out of me.

We have a slann player who bought a kroxigor prematch v my halflings for intimidation factor..... I 4 halfling blitzed it for 1 dice rolled opponent down 11-12-66-apothecary-61.

[mattgslater]

I don't know how much of a counter-argument that is. What I've encountered is that it's not hard to take shots at a lone big guy, and it's also not hard to neutralize him either with zone-marking, or by manning up a Dodge player on him, but that doesn't change the fact that the big guy requires some strategic adjustment. If your opponent isn't ready to make that adjustment, you're in a good spot. For every time the big guy gets neutralized on T1, there's a time he gets two Cas in the first half. For every time that he's confounded and managed, there's a time there's just no way to get enough assists, or even better, the blocks whiff, and he eats up space and/or manpower.

[Carnis]

I have to disagree with spasmbat on intimidation factor. After playing dwarfs I tend to reckognise skills rather then strength as a threat.

Playing against 5 ogres I'm not intimidated but a wardancer is going to scare the crud out of me.

We have a slann player who bought a kroxigor prematch v my halflings for intimidation factor..... I 4 halfling blitzed it for 1 dice rolled opponent down 11-12-66-apothecary-61.

Sounds like the fling was intimidated, made a *serious* gameplay mistake (commit 4 players to blitz a useless pawn, with the added risk of a 1die block with AV6 stunty), but got away with it by rolling 5 6's in a row . That to me sounds like a counter argument to your case.

[inkpwn]

Not really a counter argument, I'm just saying I don't really belive in the intimidation power of strength.

And the halfling thing was a safe thing rather than a risk. I had 3 treemen on pitch 7 flings and he had 6 slann of various posistions (including krox). And if I failed I had a reroll, the fling had wrestle and if I lost him I didn't care.

[Spasmbot]

As with all things psychological I obviously can't speak for everyone! But I do notice people /love/ to hit big guys, the bigger the more attention they attract! Of course maybe I just play in a league full of Davids?

[Insane_Prophet]

I think Wild Animals do tend to attract a little bit more attention than most Big Guys, due to the strategy of "Cow Tipping". Knocking a Wild Animal on his arse can really take him out of the game if a blitz is needed elsewhere.

[Smurf]

My Chaos has a Minotaur.

Daisy: Claw, Multiblock and AG3!

Not far off of her 4th!

Used her from game 1. Such a powerfull player in an early league, reserve her actions for special plays now because most of the Chaos Warriors can deal with it.

I may get to test it out against Nurgle soon.