High Elves at peak: How many position players?

[mattgslater]

When you've bought everything for your perpetual High Elves, how many position players do you have? No theorybowl at the ballot box, but jabber away in the thread, so long as you're honest about what you've done as opposed to what's popped into your head. Vote up to twice, but if you do, please post that you did.

I voted B and D; I like to run a five-man D-line rotation with two Linos dedicated to other stuff (one winger, one kicker), so I can't take all my position guys. In a bashy league, I'll run 14 men with all my Catchers; in a speedy league, I'll run 13 men with only three.

[stashman]

It only costs 20K more for a second thrower instead of a lineman and you get pass and safe throw and you can use him as a leader/block/kick player.

[mattgslater]

But what if your original Kicker really rocks? My current team has this going on. I have a Blodge Kicker; no way I'm firing him. After all, a Kicker is an early improvement; if you're only starting one Thrower, are building him as a passer (the reason I start a Thrower over a Catcher), and want to buy an Apoth, you'll certainly have your Kicker long before your #2 Thrower improves.

[mattgslater]

D=G. My bad.

[Alu-Cinator]

I voted I.


My current team :

1 Thrower
4 Catchers
8 Linemen


An incredibly speedy team.

Attack : spread the four catchers behind the enemy lines ready to catch the ball and score. Try to score as fast as possible (2 or 3 turns max).

Defense : it's much more difficult. Do not let the opponent any block opportunity (ideally, he will only block with his blitz). Run around the opponent cage and wait for the opportunity to take the ball handler down (leap, wrestle, strip ball).

[spubbbba]

I went for 1 thrower and 3 catchers, which seems to be an option twice.

Under LRB4 i'd often get 2 throwers for HE (and none for DE) as they were only 10K more and easy to skill up with a few completions. I found 4 catchers hard to manage as they are vunerable and expesive with no skills and you often need a solid core of blodge linos to take the hits instead of them.

Not taking Blitzers doesn't make any sense to me as they are great players and you're almost as fast as wood elves with 2 of them and 3-4 catchers and have AV8 on most of the team.

[Smurf]

2 catchers and a thrower can be made offence defence players.

Leaving the 2 Blitzers as the hard hitters and 3 other positions

Leaving 6 Line with 2 spare.

The Safe Throw option of the Throwers is too good to miss as a basic set up.

So far the HE are the only team to beat my WE. Almost equalised on the last turn, it was close but the coach has gone away and I may get a rematch next year.

[Asperon Thorn]

I think at Peak Having all the positionals is ideal since any elf can (and likely will need to) carry any role in a pinch having some of them start with extra skills is more useful than not.

That said, I don't recall ever having an elf team, High or otherwise, that actually had all its positionals. Sometimes there is no room on the roster because retiring a skilled lineman doesn't make sense to hire an unskilled positional, but more often I am replacing positionals as fast as I get them.

Honestly, my roster make up ussually has more to do with injuries and available cash than anything else.

Asperon Thorn

[Carnis]

This would be so much more interesting, as a dark elf poll .

There you at least have some tradeoffs (-AV for +MA, -AV for Stab/Shadowing), with HElfs you basicly have 4xMA8 (for -1 AV), 2MA7 that are almost mandatory + two throwers which are just like the linemen with 2 cheapish skills for 10k each. Taking the 2nd or not is really not a meaningful tactical choice imo, as it's so hard to see the difference between a HE thrower & a HE lineman when they are not passing.

[mattgslater]

The real question is: How many AV8 GA access players do you need in your DL rotation?

[Smeborg]

The real question is: How many AV8 GA access players do you need in your DL rotation?

Matt, the answer to that question depends on a number of variables which you did not include in the original question, for example:

- How many players do you have on the roster in total?

- Who do you give Kick to (Lino or Thrower)?

- How bashy is the league?

etc.

All the best.

[PairODice]

I am surprised no one has talked about TV bloat as a limiting factor on what positionals would or would not be carried on a long term High Elf team. The high cost of players along with TV creep can make it harder to keep the team viable.

With an Ag+ on at least one player and a team of Ag4 it is hard to justify having two Throwers.

Keeping two Blitzers is desirable but problematic as this positional suffered repeated mortality on my team. The fragility of positional specialists (i.e. just two blitzers allowed) makes such a loss that more devestating on a developed team(e.g. there goes the Leap, Strip Ball, Block, Blitzer). As the sole Block guys, the blitzers often find themselves in higher risk play.

I find you need at least three Catchers to off-set the positional specialist problem found with High Elf blitzers. With Catchers suffering injuries you will need a training spot on the roster for developing replacement Catchers so you are not caught cold when Nuffle claims one of your Stars.

[Asperon Thorn]

I am surprised no one has talked about TV bloat as a limiting factor on what positionals would or would not be carried on a long term High Elf team. The high cost of players along with TV creep can make it harder to keep the team viable.

Well, like I said, it's all really academic anyway. . .elves die, or get injured. So how often do you have the opportunity to have all the positionals?

Asperon Thorn

[mattgslater]

@PairODice: I think the major controllable factor in TV bloat is the number of players. Positionals attract skills, but having more positionals doesn't give your team more skills; it just concentrates them in fewer players. They do cost a little more... you can totally keep your base cost to 1250k with 13 players, 6 positionals and 3 TRRs; a full positional allotment adds a relatively ignorable 40k TV, less than a TRR or reserve. The other factors are health, TDs and FF, and since those are all objectives in themselves, runaway TV caused by those factors must be considered a badge of honor. I suppose it may be optimal to fire excessive FF, but I would rather take the neutral advantage if I'm a consistent big overdog, and I'd rather maintain the outlier FF because it brings statement value.

@ Asperon: That's really a style issue. If you're suffering a lot of turnover on the D-line, and replace linos with positionals, you'll eventually end up with 6-8 positionals on the roster no matter how bad you suck. Playing against this is the fact that Catchers are fragile until they get Blodge, so you need good injury luck to maintain a healthy team with a full positional complement.

As for how fast and whether you can maintain all the positionals you take, it all depends on how you treat your line. I run into this all the time with my perpetual team: I find I need a five-man D-line rotation and a backup winger in order to be successful against all opponents. That means I have to have six linos plus my Kicker. I have been sitting on more than enough money to hire all my positionals, but I can't do it without getting dead TV (I don't need 14 men). I'm not a consistent overdog, either: I have a great record, but with only 13 men and 3 TRRs, every GC of inducement cash counts. Knowing what I know now, I'd take Kick on a Catcher. But my Kicker has been one of my most consistent players (he's got Blodge and is close to #4), so no way I'm cutting him now.

[Smurf]

The real question is: How many AV8 GA access players do you need in your DL rotation?

Matt, the answer to that question depends on a number of variables which you did not include in the original question, for example:

- How many players do you have on the roster in total?

- Who do you give Kick to (Lino or Thrower)?

- How bashy is the league?

etc.

All the best.

I would give Kick to the second thrower. Some think this is against conventional wisdom but I think it frees up the Linemen to do their jobs.