What's FF worth?

[mattgslater]

That would be my instinct. Compared to FF, an AC or CL gets only half the perms, but always applies like FAME 1. You're not getting 0.5 FAME for 1FF. So in that case, don't do it.

IMO, incidental FF is worth it in some leagues, because it bears cash to make up for its lost value. If you're playing a short format, or going into an experienced or non-progression format, don't bother.

[mattgslater]

Hey, wait a minute. How's FF1, 10k bank work out?

If you've got FF1, you've got frankly a very low chance of failing to pay off. If you've got 10k banked, what are your odds of having that Apoth after 1 game? FF1 vs. 0 nets 0.85 positive FAME (don't consider negative FAME for cash purposes). More to the point, it nets a 721/1296 chance (about 5/9) to pay off, and a 16.4% (about 1/6) to pay off double. So out of every 18 games, it's 8x0k (4/9), 7x10k (7/18), 3x20k (1/6).

If you win with 10k in the bank and FF1 vs 0, and re-roll results that don't get you your Apoth, you have the following possible results:
30k: 1/18 x 4/9 = 2/81 ~ 2.5%
40k: (1/18 x 4/9) + (1/36 x 7/18) = 23/648 ~ 3.5%
Success: 94.0%.

If you tie, then you get:
30k: 1/6 x 4/9 = 2/27 ~ 7.4%
40k: 1/6 x 5/6 = 5/36 ~ 13.9%
Success: 78.7%.

If you lose, then you get:
20k: 1/6 x 4/9 = 2/27 ~ 7.4%
30k: 1/6 x 5/6 = 5/36 ~ 13.9%
40k: 1/6 ~ 16.7%
Success: 62.0%

If you tie then lose, or lose then tie, you get
40k: 1/6 x 1/6 x 4/9 = 1/81 ~ 1.25%

If you lose then lose, you get:
30k: 1.25%
40k: 2.5% (5/216)

So if you lose one of your first two games and fail to win either, you've got another 1.25% That's about 25% likely given the record assumption, so we've got about 0.3%.

45/10/45 average: 78.0%. Compare to 82% for 20k banked and 66.7% for no banked. Now, you're dealing with one FF vs. 10k+0.043 apothecaries, or 3/70 of an Apoth.

Equilibrium found: in a rookie-based prog format, take 1FF.

[Warpstone]

Tangent alert: What is FF worth in a resurrection tourney?

2 cases:
CASE A: the tourney rules allow you to spend your money on skills, so 2FF is worth a single skill.
CASE B: the tourney rules allow you to spend your money only on staff/players, so 2FF should be compared to the cheerleader/coach option.

Once you removed the $$$ value of FF, are still worth it? It's hard to balance or weigh the impact of a skill but I think an extra Block on your team is probably making Case A redundant and you'd go for the skill rather than the FF (unless it's 1FF I guess)

I think you always go for the skill rather than FF in a tourny. However, I can attest that a tourny without free FF sees a lot more FAME+2 than normal and the kickoff results can become a very big game changer.

[mattgslater]

This is a good point. You get a huge swing in the odds for FAME 2 (+40% of the 159 perms at 0/0) and opposing FAME 2 (-50%). Still, it's only an average of +0.3 FAME, while an AC or CL is +0.5 FAME on 10/13 of all relevant kickoff table results. 5/13 = .385, so if an RR counter is equal to half an Injury roll (7/24 stun + 1/8 KO + 1/12 Cas, assuming half odds for double die range with same FAME mod; it's a little better, but not enough to do the math) is equal to two stuns, you should take the AC/CL over the FF. Personally, I would take a 50% risk of an injury roll to get a free RR counter; I'm not so sure about the four lost actions, but there's no way that my weighting on 7% of outcomes is going to overcome a 28% deficit.