The human team ogre

[inkpwn]

I am having trouble picking skills for my Ogre, I want a decent template to go into the league. Any ideas?


I was thinking of toying with, block, piling on, tackle, break tackle, dodge and guard (not in any particular order and I know some are doubles)


If I roll a plus stat what ones should I take? Is +AG, +AV, +MV worth it on an ogre and is block on more effective than a strength boost on a ST5 peice?

[inkpwn]

As a note the league is most likely going to containe:

2 orc teams(skilled)

1 underworld(skilled)

1 slann(skilled)

1 ogre(skilled) or chaospact(unskilled)

1 nurgle(skilled) or norse (unskilled)

1 chaos (unskilled) or chaos dwarf (unskilled)



Possibly more and possibly 1 elve team (if andy comes back *fingers crossed*)

[Krulfang]

I would say if you roll double 6s take the S increase over a doubles skill. S6 means you have more physical power than those other big guys out there, and would make your line a bit heartier.

[TuernRedvenom]

IMO the Ogre is there to anchor your line and soak up some punishment. For that he needs guard and Stand Firm above all else.
Doubles always Block.
Skip MA and AG. STR is interesting, I think both Block and 6 STR are very good but Block only adds 30 TV so has a small edge.

[Coach]

http://bbtactics.com/human-ogres/

[Warpstone]

If you intend to stock up on guard, I'd recommend taking Block on an Ogre with doubles, even a 6,6 roll. We could award doubles skills at this year's Spike and it was an eye-opener to see how effective big-guys become when you're not afraid of "Both Down."

For normal skills: guard, stand firm is the build I normally use to make him an LOS pillar. I would think though that if a big guy does not get a doubles skill by his 3rd skill and you have good team with cash, you should consider letting him play in high risk/high return scenarios (such as marking the opposition's killer can-opener...). Hopefully his replacement will learn the special skills needed for a big guy franchise player.

[Blammaham]

I wouldn't turn down the ST+ early like first or second skill but if it is 3rd or 4th I would think of block. The thing is with st 6 the three die block is much mcuh easier to come by and if you get it early you have a decent shot for a super star Ogre with block and St6!S.

[Smurf]

double 6s... no way ST, go block.

Which would you use more often. ST5+ is a bit like AG5+ beyond that it's a bit moot. Sure now and then you'll demonstrate why 6 is better, but not in every other game.

[sunnyside]

I don't see piling on as working especially well, at least not unless you've already rolled some other crazy stuff.

This is a piece where it's good to keep those TZs active. Since they can't get claw when you go up against AV9 teams either you aren't going to use PO much if you only use it to re-roll stuns, or you're going to put your Ogre on the ground to no effect a lot. And since they are unlikely to have tackle, frenzy, or even block for a while, a blodger or even just dodger is going to be fairly hard to catch and keep down.

I join the others in suggesting Guard, SF, and maybe break tackle if you can't roll up some doubles or stats.

S6 is interesting vs block, it makes 3D blocks a lot easier, and as mentioned can be good going up against other big guys. In addition it's much more likely you'll get a doubles later than boxcars. So I'm inclined to say block is better for your next game, but in the long run +ST might be better.

[Joemanji]

The Human Ogre works best in a supporting role, I'd go:

Normals > Guard, Stand Firm, Break Tackle, Juggs.*
Doubles > Block
ST > interesting. Block is great, but S6 is awesome for his best role as a roadblock.
AG > No.
MA/AV > 5+5 no, take double. 6+4 it depends on how many other skills he has. If he already has Guard/SF then +1 AV is probably better than Grab. However if it's his first roll, take the skill.

Piling On is just madness IMO. Humans do not want their lone strength piece on the floor, ever.


*In a tournament Juggs is a good first skill. You get good value from blitzing with him.

[Carnis]

Dont see why a Block/Guard/SF/PO build would not work splendidly for a human ogre like it does for a slann krox. He will eventually die, but so what? Floor or no he still fails an action on a one..

[Joemanji]

Floor or no he still fails an action on a one..

How is that relevant? To use PO the Ogre must have passed his bonehead. So you either have the choice to retain his TZ or lose it by using PO. Whether he bonehead's on his next action doesn't pertain to this decision.

[mattgslater]

I'm not with Carnis on PO Ogres (good #3-5 skill on a hunter Blitzer, after Frenzy and MB, competing with SF and Tackle). But I do see his point. He's saying that you can't rely on the Ogre's TZ because he loses it 1/6 of the time.

[Joemanji]

An Ogre who has the chance to use PO
= an Ogre who has made a block and not turned over
= an Ogre who has passed his bonehead
= an Ogre who (this turn) has a 100% chance to retain his TZ into the start of your opponent's turn if you don't use PO.

Whether or not Ogres lose their TZ 1/6 times in general is not relevant to the choice of whether to take PO as an Improvement, or indeed whether to use it on any given turn. If you could use it, by definition this is a turn where you haven't lost your TZ. The point is clear - on the Human team, giving up the Ogre's TZ by choice is a poor decision, excepting gash turns or him being out of position. In the latter case, Break Tackle would have been a better choice.

[mattgslater]

I agree with your broad point, Joe, and I see what Carnis is saying, which is something your post doesn't address.

Whenever you declare an action with an Ogre, you already know if/how you will use PO. At the same moment, you forfeit any certainty that your Ogre will retain his TZ. So if you PO-up an Ogre, you're just resigning yourself to trading a TZ (in your thinking, if not always in practice) for increased odds of causing an injury. I think Carnis overweights that odds increase*, but his perspective makes sense.

Put another way:

Whenever I act with a Bonehead/Stupid player, I always have a plan for "if I lose my TZ."
Whenever I act with a PO player, I always have a plan for "if I lose my TZ."
One player with both of the above demands but one plan.

*PO doesn't just cost a TZ. It costs next turn's block.