How should I develop a MA10 Wardancer?

[Aliboon]

Hi, normally I think having strip ball on both wardancers early doors is the way to go, but after getting MA10 after 2 skill rolls, I'm not so sure.

I did think that being MA10 was painting too big a target on his chest, but then I figured a wardancer already had a big enough target anyway and I'd be a fool to turn it down.

So what next?

[Joemanji]

I'm sure someone will tell you to take Fend. Probably that.

[dsavillian]

If you wanted to use it as a ball-handler marker, what about Shadowing, Side Step and Diving Tackle? Side Step first if you want it to survive longer.

I have Shadowing on a 9MA Wardancer and love it.

[voyagers_uk]

Paint a massive target on his chest, just in case anyone else missed that he is a MA10 Wardancer

[mattgslater]

Side Step, and get Grab on your Treeman for a (very) easy 1TTD option.

[Chosen Warrior]

Next improvement roll use your fixed dice to give him +1 AG to make the 1TTD, which might now seem so elusive, just a little bit easier

[Joemanji]

Side Step, and get Grab on your Treeman for a (very) easy 1TTD option.

It's already (very) easy without these.

[mattgslater]

Yeah, yeah. I agree. Once you have that Grab tree, you can do it with a rookie Catcher and Thrower (preferably an Accurate Thrower and a Sure Feet Catcher). But still, MA10+Blodge+SS = MA11 pretty much always. It also makes him much harder to foul, and has at least a limited discouraging effect on incoming blocks. Besides, it's the only power skill the guy can take on a normal roll.

Also, the Dancer can get through an 8-man endzone defense much more easily than a Catcher.

[Joemanji]

Also, the Dancer can get through an 8-man endzone defense much more easily than a Catcher.

But that is a stupid OTS defence only an idiot would use. Though to be fair, ain't much defending against a MA10 Wardancer.

[mattgslater]

Vs. ST2 without Leap and with no blitz required on the 1TTD, an endzone defense (not in the endzone, but in front of it) works nicely, turning over 1/3 of Leaps and 1dbs (okay, turning over 1/6 of 1dbs, but causing another 1/6 to fail). With 8 men, you can fence the entire spine of the pitch, with one man left over, to double one spot. If you can spread SF/SS, ST4 and maybe Guard all about the six spots you can't double, you can force a leap. That Catcher needs Sure Feet and Leap to be even close to the Dancer's reliability level. Side Step on your 1TTD piece really helps if you're down men and can't engineer a proper set of chains, a common situation for Wood Elves on T8.

Of course, with 3x Stand Firm, you can kill the Grab 1TTD cold anyway. I guess you could pull it off with a Leap and a Juggy Blitz... but you'd really want Sidestep for that. And you need a Juggernaut, which isn't exactly an easy skill for a Wood Elf team.

[Aliboon]

Side Step, and get Grab on your Treeman for a (very) easy 1TTD option.

How do you know I've got a tree!?

But I do (and that was pretty much what I was thinking rather than the tree getting guard as a 1st skill).

And although, yous all might think it is easy getting a one-turn TD, I have very bad luck with them, I generally have no rerolls (or no players, or both) at the end of a half, so will end up rolling a double both down/double knock down on the block/a one on a gfi etc. But with a MA 10, leap, dodge player I should at least have even odds I suppose...

But what then? Or should I just accept that he'll be dead by the next skill...

Is strip ball a waste? Is frenzy a goer? Shadowing isn't a skill I've ever chosen I don't think, but with MA10....?

Has anyone just gone sprint, sure feet and found that they were game winners in their own right?

[mattgslater]

SS, Tackle, Shadowing, in that order.

[Joemanji]

With 8 men, you can fence the entire spine of the pitch, with one man left over, to double one spot.

You don't listen Matt. What you are describing isn't even the best 8-man spread. Here they are (facing each other in one play for ease):

If you'll notice, the yellow (yours) leaves a weak spot on the sideline for 3up dodges to get through. Yes the edge guys could have Diving Tackle, Tentacles etc, but I don't want to hear about your theorybowl where every player has 5 skills. Let's talk pure, generally applicable BB tactics. The blue setup forces a 4up dodge, and so is slightly better. But they are both poor, as they completely give up the LoS for the OTS-er to get his pushes. A good OTS defence has everyone shallow to try to make those pushes more difficult and force the same number of dodges as your 8-man spread.

But in this particular case, Grab + Side Step will negate most good defences, as you say.

[James_Probert]

But joe... If you go too close, which you have to to stop the pushes like you said, then the chainpusher can try to chainpush through your line, and you end up making things easier, as they have more options for the score.

EDIT: In anycase, a better option is to split the LOS to make the opening chain pushes harder.

[Joemanji]

But joe... If you go too close, which you have to to stop the pushes like you said, then the chainpusher can try to chainpush through your line ...

Not if you do it right. It is virtually impossible to chainpush through a group of players because of the gaps you can't fill (without Leap or 6up dodges).

You are right on leaving a gap in the LoS though, that's often a great ploy against slow teams. Not so much against WEs/Skaven.

This is the standard OTS defence used by many of the best coaches in the UK:

It does not take account of skills such as Frenzy or Grab, and so may not always been applicable. It is virtually useless against DEs or Norse for example.

Here is another option of which there are many variations (depending on the races and skills involved):


The beauty (or misery) of OTS plays is that there is always a way. Even 3 SF can be countered by Juggs. If you defend against one route, you can open another. However, if you defend well you can reduce the odds by requiring a string of dice rolls, and the pushes are a key component of this. If you set 8 men back you essentially give up the pushes (they can all be 3D and often pows will do aswell). Then you are just leaving the dodges and GFIs. I've lost count of the number of OTS attempts that have failed on the final GFI because the TRR has been used earlier on a 2D block needing pure pushes. FUMBBL worked out the odds of a OTS against the best defence once, I think it was something like 1/18.