Looking for lizardmen help and resources.

[Carnis]

Overall though if your SPP are on the Saurus and not on the Skinks you may survive. If the SPP curve favour the big guys by the time your opponent has Block/Claw/MB you are either:
1) the underdog and can use inducement to help you out
2) same TV and your concentration of SPP on ST4 players should reduce the amount of 2 dice block you suffer.

One more note: AG4 skinks. Absolutely essential at high level. If you have 2 or 3, you'll win many many games.

any succesful coach managed to bring Lizardmen to the 2000+ TV?
Any link to the team and an idea of the league where this happened? (Was there a lot of tackle and claws?)

In Fumbbl's FFB beta there's 2-3 big TV lizzies.

https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=632242
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=627267

Notice how both teams have scored a total of 58/97 SPPs with their sauri/krox, so getting high TV saurii with lizzies takes a bit of effort.

Hand off with a RR to a AG1 cage works 55% of the time, after all.

[Smeborg]

I know alot of people will plan to Blitz a skink per turn, but in all of my games I have never had all my skinks removed from the pitch and I can't recall a game where I have removed all my opponents skinks from the pitch either. The real advantage of hitting skinks is getting a numerical advantage on the pitch and further limiting the options to move the ball. They do need some protection but with dodge they will usually live through the game.

You only need to reduce the number of Skinks on the pitch to 1 in order to remove easy hand-off opportunities. Or more commonly, you can reduce the Skinks to 1 standing and 1 stunned. That's all I meant.

[inkpwn]

Its the slann bashing that worries me the most. I'm guessing its a good idea to get block/wrestle on them early?

[Smeborg]

Overall though if your SPP are on the Saurus and not on the Skinks you may survive. If the SPP curve favour the big guys by the time your opponent has Block/Claw/MB you are either:
1) the underdog and can use inducement to help you out
2) same TV and your concentration of SPP on ST4 players should reduce the amount of 2 dice block you suffer.

One more note: AG4 skinks. Absolutely essential at high level. If you have 2 or 3, you'll win many many games.

any succesful coach managed to bring Lizardmen to the 2000+ TV?
Any link to the team and an idea of the league where this happened? (Was there a lot of tackle and claws?)

In Fumbbl's FFB beta there's 2-3 big TV lizzies.

https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=632242
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=627267

Notice how both teams have scored a total of 58/97 SPPs with their sauri/krox, so getting high TV saurii with lizzies takes a bit of effort.

Hand off with a RR to a AG1 cage works 55% of the time, after all.

Carnis - with no Sure Hands on these teams, 4 Re-rolls on both , and a majority of TDs scored by players with AG1, I am struggling to take these teams and their environment seriously. It looks from the outside like some form of "munchkin" BB. Sure, a hand-off or pick-up with AG1 and a RR will work 55% of the time, but it will also fail 44% of the time, conceding a big advantage to the opponent when this happens. I haven't yet seen this strategy used in a tabletop league.

All the best.

[Carnis]

Overall though if your SPP are on the Saurus and not on the Skinks you may survive. If the SPP curve favour the big guys by the time your opponent has Block/Claw/MB you are either:
1) the underdog and can use inducement to help you out
2) same TV and your concentration of SPP on ST4 players should reduce the amount of 2 dice block you suffer.

One more note: AG4 skinks. Absolutely essential at high level. If you have 2 or 3, you'll win many many games.

any succesful coach managed to bring Lizardmen to the 2000+ TV?
Any link to the team and an idea of the league where this happened? (Was there a lot of tackle and claws?)

In Fumbbl's FFB beta there's 2-3 big TV lizzies.

https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=632242
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=627267

Notice how both teams have scored a total of 58/97 SPPs with their sauri/krox, so getting high TV saurii with lizzies takes a bit of effort.

Hand off with a RR to a AG1 cage works 55% of the time, after all.

Carnis - with no Sure Hands on these teams, 4 Re-rolls on both , and a majority of TDs scored by players with AG1, I am struggling to take these teams and their environment seriously. It looks from the outside like some form of "munchkin" BB. Sure, a hand-off or pick-up with AG1 and a RR will work 55% of the time, but it will also fail 44% of the time, conceding a big advantage to the opponent when this happens. I haven't yet seen this strategy used in a tabletop league.

All the best.

Check out their replays, they are easily viewable, if you think they are just a bunch of pickers. Maybe they are, I just picked the 2 biggest FFB fumbbl teams. The beta division is no way the final most competetive there is, as is evident from a legend big guy with 30 Tds . Still, if you set your mind on it it's fairly easy to do, especially against basher teams.

[Greyhound]

I can fail 3 turns consecutively with a sure-hands skink to pick up the ball. I cannot understand how AG1 with RR manages to do it, to make sure you have the RR you can't start blocking or risk any action. 50% of the time you will therefore have the a turnover on your first action?... and still win most of your games?

I can't be playing it right.

Carnis- Thanks for the link
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=632242, is actually still around the 1800 TV mark
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=627267 has 30 TD on a Kroxigor... AG1 with Loner.
Only 2 MVP and 1 interception. I reserve the right to doubt the achievement or Fumble players keep kicking in the crowd. Also he admitted the Krox should be dead but due to a glitch in the system survived.

what I notice is that you should never plan on having more than 3-4 skills on a Saurus (except if you go down the Block/MB/Pile on Route).
This means that once you took Block out which is essential you have 2-3 skills to pick on these guys.

Considering that skinks without double will recycle the team is mostly about keeping your TV low and knowing how to use inducements in a long league format.

[Carnis]

Carnis- Thanks for the link
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=632242, is actually still around the 1800 TV mark
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=627267 has 30 TD on a Kroxigor... AG1 with Loner.
Only 2 MVP and 1 interception. I reserve the right to doubt the achievement or Fumble players keep kicking in the crowd. Also he admitted the Krox should be dead but due to a glitch in the system survived.

Heh, the "glitch" is not any exploit, the new beta client is still in testing, and there's about 3-6 bugs in the client which completely freeze a game, his krox died in a game where he also discovered a new game freezing bug, which is going to be fixed in the next version and wasn't known at the time & has been confirmed later .

Also if you'd look at the replays you could maybe justify the achievement and not just slap it off as impossible. The last game of Aflo's nerds for instance, TD1 -> krox blitzes ballcarrier with breaktackle -> skink carriers over a def TD. 2nd TD along the same lines.

Now the dreaded saurus TD comes at the beginning of 2nd half, lizards receiving, ball is 2 squares further back, than any pact player can reach after a turnover, lizards take freeblocks + the blitz, then spend a RR with a rookie saurus to pickup the ball backfield, is that really such an impossible feat to try every game and succeed in every 2nd game? Will it really cost you a lot of games ? The saurus is also in a double-layer cage, so getting to him is near impossible.. =)

[Greyhound]

I can't watch the replays, I only have a simple web browser to lurk the internet.

I was not condemning the glitch as an exploit, I was merely pointing out that this team would be under TV2000 (I think?) had it been using the full set of rules and played on TT. I'm interested in Lizardmen team that manage to progress over TV2000 in a league with Claw and see how they manage to keep their Saurus skilled up.

Aflo's nerds for instance, TD1 -> krox blitzes ballcarrier with breaktackle -> skink carriers over a def TD. 2nd TD along the same lines.

I'm not saying it can't happen, but the Krox is the highest scorer in the whole team! How many balls have to bounce around the Krox before he rolls a 6 and constantly score more TD than the Saurus or the skinks?
He's an old Krox. with ST+ and Block, I could totally understand that he may have 10TD, touchback happen, and lukcy interceptions have been happening in my games too. I'm merely pointing at the fact that having a Kroxigor as your main TD scorer is astonishing. After the treeman and troll he's probably the least likely player to ever score a TD.

Saurus scoring I have nothing against the "situational" TD. I always give the ball to a Saurus on a touchback, and I have tried to hand-off the ball to them when I'm winning (so far they keep dropping it).

[Carnis]

Krox isnt such a bad scorer, actually, the way he gets the ball is you surround him with 3 skinks, the 4th hands it off, it succeeds on a 5+, fails on 1-4 -> bounces to either one of the 4 free squares or to one of the skinks (50/50 chance), so the turnover only happens if:

a) krox fails catch (2/3)
b) bounce is unlucky (1/2)
c) or bounce is lucky, but catch is failed (1/4)

= 2/3*3/4 = 6/12 so 50% of the time its not even a turnover, even if it doesnt always land on the krox..

The krox isnt such a hard scorer, if you think of it, ST5, MA6. An ogre is MA5, Trolls, treemen are of course worse =) - but imo also minotaurs & snowtrolls ;P.

I think this minotaur is the best (now deceased) big guy scorer of the FFB div =P.

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=playe ... id=7566853

[Greyhound]

I get your point that you can give the ball to the Krox, but it requires a vast amount of resources, and while 5 of your players play a dangerous game of hand-off you have your 6 saurus holding back 11 ferocious orcs or trying to mark 11 dodging rats.

In my experience it's not something you'll have the opportunity to try several turns in a row.
The Krox will take 2-3 turns to get to the TD line, IF he doesn't bonehead.

I'm not convinced. I will however leave you the benefit of the doubt. Krox runners for the win for some, in the meantime I'll keep trying to pick up the ball with my sure hands skink (and fail over and over again)

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=playe ... id=7566853

admittedly a tactic relying on getting 2 doubles on a single positional with AV8 cannot be considered mainstream now can it?

[Lunchab1es]

The 3DB podcast about the Lizards can be found here:

http://pseudoradio.blogspot.com/2009/09 ... rdmen.html

This is one of their earlier casts though, so some of the advice can be taken with a grain of salt *cough* 2 Sauri list *cough*