All out best CAS team?

[Funksultan]

Been playing around in Cyanide, and while stomping the AI, and playing some online games with friends... I started to wonder... which team is the absolute BEST at removing the other team? CAS, KO, crowd surfing, etc? Being resistant to getting pummeled is key as well, since you need to stay alive to avoid having to rebuild players, as well as maintaining your numbers superiority for even more bashy.

My instinct was my old favorite, straight up Chaos. Yes, they start very slowly, since you'll need block everywhere, but the unfettered access to claws, mighty blow, tentacles, grab (plus 4 str 4, and a big guy) put them ahead in my book. Still, I'm open to looking around, as there's a lot of good to consider...

Chime in.....

[Krulfang]

I was tempted to say Orcs, but knowing that would be bias for a team I love, I actually thought about it and decided on Chaos. The fact they can get mutation access (specifically Claw) means that they can bash anyone just as hard as they would goblins. Give them block, guard, mighty blow, and claws, and not much can withstand the punishment they can dish out. So, in the long game, I would say Chaos without a doubt.

Chaos Pact is a close second for me, as I only have seen them on paper and one game, but I think they could issue out some tremendous pain if their three big guys all do their part properly. However, the reliability of the S4 and the horns on the Chaos team make me think they would beat Pact in terms of pure pain.

[Gaixo]

I voted Chaos, but I would put Chaos Dwarves above most of the choices (but still below Chaos and one or two others).

[inkpwn]

I voted ogre, why? Just ask lunchmoney, what was his total at the spikey club open.... I think it was 25 casualtys in 6 games (belly floping ogres).

As far as resisting damage you have six ST5 AV9 players, sure snotlings die but they barely count as players :p

Six ST5 peices plus disposable foul machines make the ogres top dog for the pain train. Probably followed by the khemri hanging on their caboose.

[Smeborg]

In a long-running league, I would vote for Chaos Dwarfs, because of Claw on players that start with Block/Tackle/AV9/T-Skull. They also have spammed early Guard and good cheap foulers (Hobgobs).

In terms of reliable ability to dish out damage early in a league, I would actually put Underworld, because they can readily create 3 can-openers. Of course the Underworld will take lots of CAS too, so they don't fit your survey.

Chaos make an excellent slayer team eventually. The problem for them is that their players are relatively unprotected when they come up against another slayer team (M.A.D.). No starting Block or Dodge is a handicap. Even at 5 skills, a Chaos player will be one or two skills short of completeness (for example: Block, M-Blow, Claw, Tackle, P-On can be thwarted by Fend). Whereas 5 skill Chaos Dwarfs with Claw can be the complete package (all of the above plus 2 out of Grab/Juggernaut/Guard). And a well-developed Chaos slayer team will come at a high cost in TV (which at least is sporting for opponents).

[inkpwn]

I also think that gobbos should be removed from the poll.

[mattgslater]

I voted Ogre, but in a long format, I'd vote Chaos. If you're talking about ratio or differential, Orcs win hands down.

[Greyhound]

Ogres really only excel at it in a competition format with point buy and the ability to put the SPP/Skills where you want. I'd think they would rely too much on inducements to be competitive in the CAS department for league play.

My thoughts were Norse vs Orcs, with Norse ditching more pain but loosing more men.

In the end I voted chaos, if you really want to just hurt, and nothing else Chaos team FTW. It's purely theoretical and in the alternate dimension where you would only win a game based on the CAS inflicted, and they wouldn't be the best at first, they would however grow and grow eventually getting enough skills to cream the other teams. Eventually Orcs run out of skills to take and end up on Stand Firm/Grab to complement the harm while chaos is still picking up Claw.

[Carnis]

Your list really really badly needs chaos dwarves in it. Without them, I voted chaos. With them probably still chaos but not by a large margin.. Chaos dwarves beat chaos, if they roll the doubles for claws..

[Tourach]

Voted nurgle, but this is in the long term prospect. Should be as a really well developed team be able to deal out punishment while not recieving as much and holding on to the other players.

[Funksultan]

Thinking about it some more, and although Chaos looks like everyone's overwhelming choice, I'm definitely giving Dwarf/Chaos Dwarf another thought.

I know we're talking about late, late game, assuming that you'll be dominating your opponents, and skills will be coming with some regularity.

A vanilla "can opener" beastman usually takes (in order) block, MB, Claw, Tackle. (each skill up increasing his cas rate and thus more spp).

Still, a Squat lineman has 2 of the 4 covered, and no access to claw (dbls on CD). I'm guessing their progression would look like, MB, Guard, Stand Firm, Grab.

Comparing the two, the beastman doesn't pose a significant advantage until claw, whereas the dwarf is just hoping for enough nearby guard to force a 1/2 die. Looks to be a lot closer in effectiveness than I woulda thought.

(yes, there are more differences.. Horns and AG3 (for TD possibilities) are very nice, but I'd just about even that up for AV9 and thick skull).

Still Chaos, but very close. It puts orcs out of the running in my head, as they have the AV9, but suffer from the lack of innate needed skills like chaos, and from the lack of mutation like stunties.

[mattgslater]

What team does the most damage? The team on that list (or Dwarf/CD) with the coach who's the best blocker.

[Smeborg]

In tabletop leagues in which I have played, I have observed that Chaos usually take about as many CAS as they inflict. This is sporting, but does it really make them such a good CAS team? What CAS ratios do you guys who voted for Chaos see in practice?

[mattgslater]

In tabletop leagues in which I have played, I have observed that Chaos usually take about as many CAS as they inflict. This is sporting, but does it really make them such a good CAS team? What CAS ratios do you guys who voted for Chaos see in practice?

I voted Ogre, but in a long format, I'd vote Chaos. If you're talking about ratio or differential, Orcs win hands down.

If you're trying to build a killer team in a perpetual league and have no other considerations, there's a different answer from if you just want to be on the proper side of the body count. I've never had a season with Orcs where any other team of any race took fewer Cas per game than me, and I'm usually around the 75th percentile in damage inflicted. Dwarfs can even eclipse Orcs in this regard when there's a lot of Dodge running around. Chaos and Norse tend to rack up the bloodshed, but on the whole they take as good as they give. Also, a lot of Chaos teams aren't really built as killers (though most evolve some killer-type players). Chaos Dwarfs are halfway between Orcs and Chaos in this regard, with Hobs taking more damage than Orc Blitzers or throwers, but building into a lot of Guard and Claw, and almost as much ST.

[Carnis]

In tabletop leagues in which I have played, I have observed that Chaos usually take about as many CAS as they inflict. This is sporting, but does it really make them such a good CAS team? What CAS ratios do you guys who voted for Chaos see in practice?

Here's some killgeared chaos for practical ratios:

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=628740 255-129 (difference +126 cas/60 games, +2.1/game)
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=626422 150-63 (difference +83 cas/34 games, +2.5/game)

But killgeared nurgle can do it too:

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=613494 185-66 (difference +119/43 games, +2.8/game)