3 Slann development questions

[Smeborg]

(1) Who takes Guard on the team, and when?

(2) What is the best doubles pick on a Linefrog?

(3) The Catchers seem to like re-roll skills (Dodge, S-Hands, Catch, even Pro), but also need protection (Block or Wrestle, S-Step, Fend). What is the best skill order for them?

[Context: I am contemplating a first ever league run with my newly ordered Slann team, the S.U.B.S. (Synchronised Underwater Ballet Society). Friendly mixed open tabletop league.]

Thanks in advance for your help.

[inkpwn]

Just a quick chip in, slann like strip ball. I would take it on a blitzer or two

[Gaixo]

(1) Catchers, on their first doubles roll. The "Kroxigor," probably as his first skill. I don't like Guard on the Blitzers, but think I might be in the minority.

(2) I'd get Guard on them as well, though you could try and build a short passer to handle early ball movement.

(3) I wouldn't take Sure Hands, Catch, or Pro on Catchers. Dodge and Block/Wrestle are the first skills, assuming no doubles are rolled. After that, I'd say one or two with Tackle then Strip Ball, others get Sidestep then Fend.

[dr. evil]

I give guard to the krocs or a linefrog on doubles. The blitzers can take guard on a normal roll but they work better as a marksmen.

As for the catchers I like dodge as there first skill on 3 and KOR on the other. Sure hands and pass block are good second skills.

[Greyhound]

Slann's best playbook imho is this Alfred Janson (Ikterus)'s playbook, on plasmoid's site.

Guard goes on the lino on doubles if you can but primarily it's a Blitzer skill (read the playbook to understand why)

[Carnis]

I realize it's "only" online bloodbowl, but look here:

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=635661

[Dzerards]

That play book of Ikterus's is very good. Galak also does a good summery of them on one of the Three Die Block podcast as does Bouf I think on one of the Tackle Zone Radio episodes.

As for where skills go it depends on how you plan to build your team (and probably your league too). I like to use the mobility to play them like Skaven; keep popping the ball free with wrestle - strip ball linefrogs and scooping it up and scoring with the catchers. You can usually get 2 or 3 TDs up before the bashy teams can get started. A lot of people build the Blitzers as pure killers, with some success too I can imagine. Places like Fumbbl you pretty much have too as all out winning isn't as important as team preservation, i.e. kill him before he kills you.

As all your linefrogs should be getting wrestle as a first skill I kinda like giving my blitzers guard as their first skill and it fits with their sort of support roll, the way I use them at any rate. Guard on the Krox, if you take him, is a no brainer, and any linefrogs that roll doubles. I had a linefrog roll double 5s last night and I was tempted to take Pass on him, mainly for fluff reasons as he is named Long Bomb Bradley due to some ridiculous game saving antics in his first match, but the catchers AG 4 makes them far better throwers. Catchers who take guard can get into some great places but are so fragile you may not want to risk them.

Sure hands on at least on catcher is a good pick as you frequently find them trying to recover the ball from tackle zones, though I don't know if I would go for catch as they're 2+ to catch an accurate pass in one TZ to begin with. Maybe on a dedicated pass blocker if you have a mind to build one. Dodge and block are again no brainers, but I would be less inclined to pick wrestle on a Catcher.

On a side note I'm becoming more inclined to start with only 2 catchers in a league as they are so fragile I was usually only playing with one my first couple of games as they are more often than not in the KO box or MNG! And starting with an apothecary! I had two deaths and 2 SIs in my first two matches!

[Smeborg]

Thanks, guys. Very helpful. Seems to confirm some generalities of the Slann, which are:

Lino development and doubles: more or less standardised
Catcher development and doubles: more or less standardised
Krox: optional
Blitzer numbers and development: not at all standardised - will determine the style of your team

At the moment I incline more towards Galak's development path than Ikterus' (i.e. Wrestle, Tackle), and towards 4 Blitzers, notwithstanding the higher TV. There's only one way to find out...

[Ullis]

I actually played against that slann team on Fumbbl that Carnis posted yesterday and I consider myself lucky to have scraped a draw with my Nurgle team.

The team has 4 blitzers and that proved to work pretty well. The main thing I noticed from the game was that the 4 blitzers were awesome. With their slayer skills they had free Fend sometimes as I didn't dare follow them up even when I knocked them down as they have Jump-up. That was awful as that same Jump-up is the very reason I should follow up to tie them down. The other thing about the 4 blitzers was that with Diving Tackle they could create very large pockets for a ball carrier with only 2 or 3 players that I couldn't possible breach without at least one 5+ dodge and several GFI's.

I've been of the opinion that 2 blitzers is enough for a slann team but after yesterday's match I might change my thinking. Not that getting 4 blitzers on a team will be easy due to cost.

[Carnis]

I actually played against that slann team on Fumbbl that Carnis posted yesterday and I consider myself lucky to have scraped a draw with my Nurgle team.

The team has 4 blitzers and that proved to work pretty well. The main thing I noticed from the game was that the 4 blitzers were awesome. With their slayer skills they had free Fend sometimes as I didn't dare follow them up even when I knocked them down as they have Jump-up. That was awful as that same Jump-up is the very reason I should follow up to tie them down. The other thing about the 4 blitzers was that with Diving Tackle they could create very large pockets for a ball carrier with only 2 or 3 players that I couldn't possible breach without at least one 5+ dodge and several GFI's.

I've been of the opinion that 2 blitzers is enough for a slann team but after yesterday's match I might change my thinking. Not that getting 4 blitzers on a team will be easy due to cost.

I spectated parts of that game. And to be fair your team is a low rating nurgle team, and nurgs are one of the most expensive early teams, then he was 300k the overdog, and you took bribes. He might as well have been 400k the overdog. Jimjo's a very good picker, he even said himself he needs a scheduler system just to stop himself picking cherries..

If your teams had been same value and both had slayer players & if you were a proficient fouler (for you, 7 skillups on your NWs, 6 skillups on pests and 4 FF) he would have been slaughtered.

[nick_nameless]

IMO Guard goes with AG4 Slann like peas go with carrots. It's the most important thing you can do to break cages. Catchers with AG 4 have a big target on their head, but it's worth while to knock that ball loose.

I would take it on a line frog at the first opportunity if I rolled doubles, and especially if he had a +AG. With +str I would probably get Mighty Blow.

Not on a blitzer. Blitzers are much better served in the open field with Tackle, shadowing, pass defense (not necessarily to intercept, but to get a tackle zone on a catcher and keep him from running away...but only on one piece), or with a block, mighty blow, piling on development. That first group works better if you can get +MV and/or + AG

[dr. evil]

I agree guard on a catcher is great. I have one on my team and use him not only for the assist when breaking a cage but also to direct which way the ball carrier goes after I hit him.

[Smeborg]

The number of Blitzers coaches prefer on the roster may be unrelated to cost (at least directly). Perhaps it is more related to defensive set-up. If you develop all the Catchers in a more or less standard way as specialist ball-retrievers, and believe in having all of them on the park, this gives in defense:

3 Linefrogs on the line
1 Linefrog with (say) Wrestle/Kick
1 Linefrog with (say) Wrestle/S-Ball
4 Catchers

That leaves only room for 2 Blitzers. Hard to see how you can increase the number of Blitzers unless you do without either a Catcher, or Kick, or S-Ball. Of course this assumes all your players are fit at all times, a rather unlikely proposition for the Slann.

All the best.

[Ullis]

3 Linefrogs on the line
1 Linefrog with (say) Wrestle/Kick
1 Linefrog with (say) Wrestle/S-Ball
4 Catchers

That leaves only room for 2 Blitzers.

That also leaves out the kroxigor, which I think is vital for the team. But I don't think you need all 4 catchers on defence. Especially a catcher without skills isn't a very handy asset against many teams. On defence the hard part is setting up the aerial assault into a cage, or at least threatening the opponent with it. Most people, I know I do myself and I've been told so when playing slann by others, obsess about the cage jump. Catchers are useful in scooping up the ball and getting it to the td line, but you need the ball first. With catchers you can try and cut off the ball carrier from the main offence line and the safety of the cage but in my experience that works quite rarely as they are so easy to blitz with just one player due to ST2 and they aren't as fast as many other catcher types. Plus getting them between the ball carrier and the los involves leaps.

[Ullis]

I spectated parts of that game. And to be fair your team is a low rating nurgle team, and nurgs are one of the most expensive early teams, then he was 300k the overdog, and you took bribes. He might as well have been 400k the overdog. Jimjo's a very good picker, he even said himself he needs a scheduler system just to stop himself picking cherries..

If your teams had been same value and both had slayer players & if you were a proficient fouler (for you, 7 skillups on your NWs, 6 skillups on pests and 4 FF) he would have been slaughtered.

Thank you, Carnis, for that feedback. I did feel a bit silly about taking three bribes instead of say, Lord Borak, but my main motivation was to get me to throw fouls in the first place as that's a part of BB where I'm really lacking in skills as you rightly pointed out.