3 Slann development questions

[Smeborg]

That also leaves out the kroxigor, which I think is vital for the team.

Ullis - why do you think the Krox is vital? I hear quite mixed opinions from coaches, including expert ones. If you take the Krox and 4 Blitzers, and 4-5 Re-rolls, the team's TV will be the highest in the game (higher than DE or WE). What is your preferred final roster?

All the best.

[Ullis]

Ullis - why do you think the Krox is vital? I hear quite mixed opinions from coaches, including expert ones. If you take the Krox and 4 Blitzers, and 4-5 Re-rolls, the team's TV will be the highest in the game (higher than DE or WE). What is your preferred final roster?

The kroxigor adds durability, raw strength, hitting power and Guard to the team. The kroxigor is also fast enough to keep up with the rest of the team. First of all he performs the same function as the treeman on WE's. A kroxigor can take a lot of hits compared to a lino. The krox also serves as a good way to funnel action on the pitch. And a ST5 MB player is always nice. I always fail when I try to use big guys in an active role and the kroxigor performs well on the slann team when he's standing still, concentrating on not losing TZ's, on a perfect spot on the pitch. Although with move 6 and just Bonehead it's relatively easy to reposition.

I have to say that I never really think in terms of final rosters that I'm aiming for. That could be due to playing quite a lot of squishy teams until lately.

But I think my preferred slann roster is:
1 krox
2 blitzers
4 catchers
6-7 linos
5 rerolls
Apo
tons of FF due to winning

I think a slann team can handle high TV quite well. The slann get bad inducements. Babes are obviously good but the star players are not too good.

[Smeborg]

Thanks, Ullis - I had already considered the ultimate roster as proposed by you. It has a certain appeal.

[dr. evil]

I would drop a linefrog and bring in a 3rd blitzer. The blitzers are the ones that cause fits for your opponents and many turnsovers from failed dodges. I feel they are the backbone of the team and to run with less than 3 would be a mistake.

[Smeborg]

My next question concerns Slann Blitzer development. I'm not sure there is a definitive answer, but I ask the question.

I went with Galak's recommended roster (0-2-2-7, 3RR, Apoth) and feel this works well on a squishy team. Played 2 games, both against Orcs, won one, lost one, but survived, and now have a 3rd Catcher and 1AC/1CL. I like the Blitzers, they are very dynamic players. I feel they are far too good and active to be given Guard. My thinking is:

First skill: Wrestle.
Second/third/fourth skills: Tackle, Dodge, Sidestep (BUT IN WHAT ORDER???).

When I planned the team, I thought Wrestle, Tackle, Dodge, Sidestep, in order to get the D-Tackle/Tackle combo at an early stage. However, I am now wondering if I should take Wrestle, Dodge first - it is a dynamic combo for Slann, as you can dodge and leap, both with RRs. It protects your most expensive players, too. Also, early S-Step would pose a lot of problems for the opponent - he would have to take increased care when blocking a J-Up player.

What do you think?

[Carnis]

I think wrestle is a waste, I had 5 blitzers with wrestle & always regretted having it. Jump up & dodge are not good enough reasons to forego the S-access skills & go wrestle on the most expensive pieces. Go liner-W instead.

[Smeborg]

I think wrestle is a waste, I had 5 blitzers with wrestle & always regretted having it. Jump up & dodge are not good enough reasons to forego the S-access skills & go wrestle on the most expensive pieces. Go liner-W instead.

So, Carnis, if I understand your posts on this thread, you consider the Slann to be a slayer team? Am I correct? If the answer is yes, could you perhaps clarify the discussion by telling us which BB teams (in your opinion) are not slayer teams ? And how would you expect the FUMBBL team to get on against a well coached "traditional" slayer team of the same TV?

I note that for the FUMBBL team to which you gave a link, there is no Guard on the 4 Blitzers. With that, at least, I agree. I would prefer Guard on the Catchers and Linos (if they can get it, of course).

All the best.

[Demagoge]

I just started my Slann team and both of my Blitzers got block. I think it is a very good skill for them, even if you don´t wnat to play them as hitters. If you give them wrestle, they go down easier and your winger definitly wants to stand and use Diving Tackle against the advancing receiver. I see wrestle more on the linefrogs.

I also think, that I prefer 4 Blitzers on my team rather than the Krox. Give two Blitzers screening skills (1:Block, 2:Tackle, 3:Side Step) and the other two Blitzers will be developed to killers (1:Block, 2/3:Pilling On/Mighty Blow, 4:Tackle). If the receiver can pass the screeners, the killers go for the hunt.

[MeatLoafX]

I have a fair amount of playtime with the Slann - here are my suggestions.
1. Guard is best on a linefrog who has doubles. I've had some luck with it on a catcher, but it's only a matter of time until someone pastes that guy. Even a blodging 7 AV guy doesn't like being in the middle of a cage.

2. See above.

3. Dodge is always my first skill. Then it's Block or Sure hands. Most often block. I don't SH all of my catchers. I also have not taken catch. They do almost everything on a 2+ and since they don't one turn score, you can spread out the risk - it's not often he has to make more than two 2+ rolls in a turn.

I don't run four blitzers. It's just too pricey and, though I like the blitzers, they are slow to develop and often get hurt before they get the chance to really progress. Playing with them is a definite must - I just don't think most teams can handle all four. Four catchers is generally great, though my team had a linefrog get +AG, so I haven't purchased the 4th catcher. I generally go wrestle on the linefrogs, block on the blitzers and catchers. I do understand that wrestle may also be popular on the blitzers, but I have gone block on all of mine - I'd rather a person hit me and stay standing next to my diving tackle. I can understand wanting to wrestle them down, though.

Blitzers on the Slann team aren't really blitzers on defense - they are more like a safety, forming a diving tackle net where you can. On defense, I really blitz almost exclusively with linefrogs since they are the ones who ball hunt the best on the team (wrestle, strip ball, tackle). I have blitzed with blitzers, but it's most often if I am hunting someone other than the ball carrier.

My team, currently 6-1:
http://iowa.bloodbowlleague.com/default.asp?p=tm&t=21j

[Carnis]

I think wrestle is a waste, I had 5 blitzers with wrestle & always regretted having it. Jump up & dodge are not good enough reasons to forego the S-access skills & go wrestle on the most expensive pieces. Go liner-W instead.

So, Carnis, if I understand your posts on this thread, you consider the Slann to be a slayer team? Am I correct? If the answer is yes, could you perhaps clarify the discussion by telling us which BB teams (in your opinion) are not slayer teams ? And how would you expect the FUMBBL team to get on against a well coached "traditional" slayer team of the same TV?

I note that for the FUMBBL team to which you gave a link, there is no Guard on the 4 Blitzers. With that, at least, I agree. I would prefer Guard on the Catchers and Linos (if they can get it, of course).

All the best.

Jimjo's other slann team (both are testing teams - the one with MB and the one without):

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=628866

My point is, Blodge/SS/DT is much more annoying than Wrestle/SS/DT. Also Block/JU is more annoying when getting blocked than Wre/JU, also they are no better cage-leapers than the linemen (except with dodge for getting out of TZs for the leap).

Slann arent a slayer team, but BB is not a black or white game, where you go "slayer" and ignore all ball-play skills, or go "elf" and ignore all blocking/killing skills, I seem to be unable to communicate this through and most of you seem to disagree, though I have no idea on what grounds.

A good slann coach will hence have one MB/PO blitzer, a bunch of ballplay linemen/catchers, guard/sf/BT krox & 1-2 Blodge/guard/SS blitzers (ideally).

[nick_nameless]

I think wrestle is a waste, I had 5 blitzers with wrestle & always regretted having it. Jump up & dodge are not good enough reasons to forego the S-access skills & go wrestle on the most expensive pieces. Go liner-W instead.

So, Carnis, if I understand your posts on this thread, you consider the Slann to be a slayer team? Am I correct? If the answer is yes, could you perhaps clarify the discussion by telling us which BB teams (in your opinion) are not slayer teams ? And how would you expect the FUMBBL team to get on against a well coached "traditional" slayer team of the same TV?

I note that for the FUMBBL team to which you gave a link, there is no Guard on the 4 Blitzers. With that, at least, I agree. I would prefer Guard on the Catchers and Linos (if they can get it, of course).

All the best.

Jimjo's other slann team (both are testing teams - the one with MB and the one without):

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=628866

My point is, Blodge/SS/DT is much more annoying than Wrestle/SS/DT. Also Block/JU is more annoying when getting blocked than Wre/JU, also they are no better cage-leapers than the linemen (except with dodge for getting out of TZs for the leap).

Slann arent a slayer team, but BB is not a black or white game, where you go "slayer" and ignore all ball-play skills, or go "elf" and ignore all blocking/killing skills, I seem to be unable to communicate this through and most of you seem to disagree, though I have no idea on what grounds.

A good slann coach will hence have one MB/PO blitzer, a bunch of ballplay linemen/catchers, guard/sf/BT krox & 1-2 Blodge/guard/SS blitzers (ideally).

I am not sure that Blodge should be a priority for your blitzers unless you are running more than 2. The blitzers are really the best non-contact defensive pieces in the game. DT/T/PassBlock makes them unbelievable safeties. Blodge gives them survivability, but if they are living in the backfield they don't need it as much.

I mainly use my blitzers to cover deep vulnerable areas of the pitch and to screen my catchers from defenders on offense. If I had a third it would probably be a block, mightyblow, pile on build, but I think that taking Block and dodge early on the safeties stunts their development of their ability to do their job better.

[Carnis]

I am not sure that Blodge should be a priority for your blitzers unless you are running more than 2. The blitzers are really the best non-contact defensive pieces in the game. DT/T/PassBlock makes them unbelievable safeties. Blodge gives them survivability, but if they are living in the backfield they don't need it as much.

I mainly use my blitzers to cover deep vulnerable areas of the pitch and to screen my catchers from defenders on offense. If I had a third it would probably be a block, mightyblow, pile on build, but I think that taking Block and dodge early on the safeties stunts their development of their ability to do their job better.

So let me get your point:

Block/Dodge stunts their development and ability to do their job better - unlike.. Tackle/PASS BLOCK..?

[Smeborg]

Slann arent a slayer team, but BB is not a black or white game, where you go "slayer" and ignore all ball-play skills, or go "elf" and ignore all blocking/killing skills...

Carnis - I don't disagree with your statement. You do seem, however, to give a higher priority to killing skills than most coaches that I have played against, regardless of the team under discussion. I don't say that is wrong, I just make the observation.

I don't observe that coaches prioritise ST skills for the rare and valuable players in the game that have GSA access. For example, Vampires may be given M-Blow as a late or middle skill, but in my experience, only 1 out of 5 skills will be ST.

Thanks, everyone, for your most interesting input. The wide variety of opinion on Slann Blitzer development would appear to confirm my suspicion that they have one of the most variable development paths of any player type.

All the best.

[nick_nameless]

I am not sure that Blodge should be a priority for your blitzers unless you are running more than 2. The blitzers are really the best non-contact defensive pieces in the game. DT/T/PassBlock makes them unbelievable safeties. Blodge gives them survivability, but if they are living in the backfield they don't need it as much.

I mainly use my blitzers to cover deep vulnerable areas of the pitch and to screen my catchers from defenders on offense. If I had a third it would probably be a block, mightyblow, pile on build, but I think that taking Block and dodge early on the safeties stunts their development of their ability to do their job better.

So let me get your point:

Block/Dodge stunts their development and ability to do their job better - unlike.. Tackle/PASS BLOCK..?

Taclke/Pass block is an example of one development path, but yes, that is what I am saying. Speaking specifically about using the blitzers as safeties. Do you use the Slann blitzers as traditional blitzers? I don't find them to be very good at it.

I worry about putting Block and dodge on ball carriers. Both skills are all around useful, but neither of them are going to make your opponent have to rethink their strategic approach. Slann are all about making your opponent rethink strategic approach. I try to keep my blitzers out of the fray and closing off running and passing lanes. They are terrific at it.

EDIT: I am just not sure what role dodge plays in what I want my Slann Blitzers to do. That's not to say it's not "useful", but it doesn't add function to what I am trying to accomplish. And please take my comment in context. I was specifically referencing using the blitzers as safeties, as bolded above.

[Carnis]

EDIT: I am just not sure what role dodge plays in what I want my Slann Blitzers to do. That's not to say it's not "useful", but it doesn't add function to what I am trying to accomplish. And please take my comment in context. I was specifically referencing using the blitzers as safeties, as bolded above.

A traditional safety build would indeed include the following:

Block, Dodge, Sidestep, Diving tackle players (force a -2 dodge). The blitzers start with DT, but need all three - at Block&Dodge they are already pretty annoying to shake, but SS or SF is really needed to force a POW on the defender or the use of grab or tackle without using two of these players for one opponent.

OR

Wrestle/Block + Tackle, Frenzy, or Strip ball (get the ball / player down) + dodge if possible (to get the blitzer in position).

I dont honestly understand how you can stop your opponents without marking them with your concept of "non-contact safeties". I suspect you try to play slann too uniquely, or your league is just not used to them. I got a 100% winrate in my TT-league with my vampires this season too, needless to say my fumbbl-vamps only managed slightly above 50%.