Winning Teams

[narg]

Could anyone post either the team sheets or links to the team sheets of teams that won major leagues or tournaments, and in an ideal world with some comments from the coach (explanations on bizarre skill choices, whether they're due to meta-gaming or some unusual playing style).

I've recently been studying the top teams of Cyanide's open league but I realized afterwards that there was apparently a lot of cheating going on and at least some of the top players are also the top cheaters (well I guess that's what you need to get a win rate of 100% after 20 or 30 games).

Ideally I'd like to see the best team from each race in some major league / tournament.

[spubbbba]

Well leagues and tournaments are very different beasts.

For one thing most tournaments have special rules about skill choices and injuries don't carry over so some teams do much better in those situations (zons are the prime example).

Leagues also have their own special rules as well, some only play a few games and then restart whilst other are perpetual.

Cyanide isn't a lot of use sadly as it's riddled with cheats and far too many coaches conceed as soon as the game starts going badly. They do have some well organised shceduled leagues that could be useful. Also there is stunty leeg which is pretty good and I know Plasmoid complied a load of stats for the LRB5/6 test data.

FUMBBL's crp client is still in the test stage sadly but hopefully it will be finished soon and then it should be a great source.

[narg]

Well leagues and tournaments are very different beasts.

I know but even though they are different it should still give an idea of what the best skills are in a team. To take a random example, if you see that no team winning a major league or tournament ever took pass block then you know that if you take it either you're making a big mistake or you're so awesome that you're better at skill selection than the winner of a major league / tournament. I think that it would help people to think more clearly on team development.

[rodders]

Skills that get taken can be situational and differ from league to league.
given your example if a league had lots of passing pass block would be taken alot or if a league was really bash heavy there wouldn't be alot of tackle taken comnpared to a league with a balance of ag and bash teams

in short theres no exact formula just general guidlines.


Oh and what do you mean by major league? a league with alot of players or a smaller league that has players who on their national tournament circuit would be considered "elite"

[Carnis]

These teams survived to the FC final this year at fumbbl, but it's LRB4..

https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=411710
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=204689

It's not crucial how you build the team, more crucial is how you play it & luck out a bit too if you want to win majors..

[spubbbba]

Well leagues and tournaments are very different beasts.

I know but even though they are different it should still give an idea of what the best skills are in a team. To take a random example, if you see that no team winning a major league or tournament ever took pass block then you know that if you take it either you're making a big mistake or you're so awesome that you're better at skill selection than the winner of a major league / tournament. I think that it would help people to think more clearly on team development.

Well virtually all tabletop tournaments are low TV, so there isn't much variety.

Block, Guard, dodge and leader feature heavily then things like dauntless, frenzy, strip ball, sure hands, tackle, wrestle, mighty blow, juggernaut, tentacles and 2 heads.

It totally depends on the teams and there is plenty of discussion of both tournament and league skill options in the relevant forums.

For a league where you know the people you are playing then skill choices totally depends on what the other teams take, as rodders states if it's zon and elf heavy expect plenty of tackle.

[narg]

These teams survived to the FC final this year at fumbbl, but it's LRB4..

https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=411710
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=204689

It's not crucial how you build the team, more crucial is how you play it & luck out a bit too if you want to win majors..

Wow these teams are so weird! Especially the orcs, dirty player on the thrower and on the kicker??? Actually, a kicker on an orc team??? And the skills all look quite random, they're not unusual skills but they're combined in a weird way! I must say I really didn't expect something like that. But I can see that a lot of players got killed on the way and I guess he's just giving the skills when he needs them to replace those of dead players. And I'm glad to see that he got Diving Tackle on a black orc, that's what I'm trying to get on my team since a long time but I never managed to roll a double on a black orc so I've never been able to test it. And the link to the past players is great as well, very interesting.

Thanks for the links!!!

[Skarsnikk]

Actually, a kicker on an orc team???

Whats wrong with a Kicker on a Orc team? I use one (usually a Line-Orc) to great effect to either put the ball in a contested area or stuck in a corner, depending on the team I'm facing. Am I in the minority?

[narg]

Actually, a kicker on an orc team???

Whats wrong with a Kicker on a Orc team? I use one (usually a Line-Orc) to great effect to either put the ball in a contested area or stuck in a corner, depending on the team I'm facing. Am I in the minority?

I don't know about that, maybe I'm the one in the minority!!!

However if you have one troll and two linemen on the LOS as well as 4 black orcs and 4 blitzers on the pitch, that's a full team. Kick doesn't work on the LOS, so where do you put the kicker, do you put a black orc or blitzer in reserves? Or then it means that you put two black orcs on the LOS instead of linemen and then you can have a kicker, but nearly any team (including some elves) can outbash such a front line so you then start your turn with black orcs on the ground or off the pitch.

On top of that I think that kick is for sneaky teams such as elves or skaven who can pick up the ball and score if there's a blitz event or if the opponent fails to pick up the ball; with orcs you're never going to outrun the opponent, pick-up the ball in one or more tackle zones and then dodge away to score so as it ain't gonna happen anyway why take kick?

Or at least that's what I used to think, if there's kick on a winning orc team then it means it can't be that bad...

[narg]

Well virtually all tabletop tournaments are low TV, so there isn't much variety.

Block, Guard, dodge and leader feature heavily then things like dauntless, frenzy, strip ball, sure hands, tackle, wrestle, mighty blow, juggernaut, tentacles and 2 heads.

I guess that leader is much better in tournaments than in eternal leagues isn't it?

Juggernaut is a bit more puzzling, is it just on the big guys because doubles aren't allowed, or on witch-elves for crowd-surfing? I haven't taken juggernaut very often and I've mostly found it disappointing; after all as it only works on a blitz, if you get a both down when you throw a normal block it's fairly annoying.

The other skills make sense.

[Carnis]

Wow these teams are so weird! Especially the orcs, dirty player on the thrower and on the kicker??? Actually, a kicker on an orc team??? And the skills all look quite random, they're not unusual skills but they're combined in a weird way! I must say I really didn't expect something like that. But I can see that a lot of players got killed on the way and I guess he's just giving the skills when he needs them to replace those of dead players. And I'm glad to see that he got Diving Tackle on a black orc, that's what I'm trying to get on my team since a long time but I never managed to roll a double on a black orc so I've never been able to test it. And the link to the past players is great as well, very interesting.

Thanks for the links!!!

dirty player was +2 on Fumbbl's old ruleset, LRB4 - and also there was a generic +1 to the armor roll that is no longer there, so fouling was more powerful, that's why 3 DPs and 1 on the thrower as well. The skills dont seem random at all for me, blanket Block/dodge to stay alive for the elves, blanket block/guard for the orcs, DP was so OP in LRB4 that even elves had to field one for tourneys, although that team no longer benefits that much from it, as it starts games with -3 players (no journeymen in LRB4).

Elf also has the mandatory one +Mb/tackler, one strip ball (on a +AG), and rest doubles on guard. He's in the final, because he did a 7man oneturn with his MA8 blitzer in the previous game against chaos dwarves.

Other than that the only weird bit (from LRB6 point of view) is stand firm as firstpick on two orc blitzers, but that is because SF was different in LRB4 (a double skill - a "trait") that with a failed dodge you could just stop dodging & end move instead of turning over if you had it.

[Skarsnikk]

I don't know about that, maybe I'm the one in the minority!!!

However if you have one troll and two linemen on the LOS as well as 4 black orcs and 4 blitzers on the pitch, that's a full team. Kick doesn't work on the LOS, so where do you put the kicker, do you put a black orc or blitzer in reserves? Or then it means that you put two black orcs on the LOS instead of linemen and then you can have a kicker, but nearly any team (including some elves) can outbash such a front line so you then start your turn with black orcs on the ground or off the pitch.

On top of that I think that kick is for sneaky teams such as elves or skaven who can pick up the ball and score if there's a blitz event or if the opponent fails to pick up the ball; with orcs you're never going to outrun the opponent, pick-up the ball in one or more tackle zones and then dodge away to score so as it ain't gonna happen anyway why take kick?

Or at least that's what I used to think, if there's kick on a winning orc team then it means it can't be that bad...

My Line of Scrimmage usually consists of Troll and 4 Black Orcs, Blitzers out on the flanks and LineOrc midfield with Thrower/Line Orc deep safety. The midfield guy has kick.