Diving Tackle and Dodge

[Darkson]

I've tried a search, and I either didn't word it properly, or it still not working correctly.

How does my DT work vs. opponents Dodge?

Do I go prone before the dodge re-roll or after?

For example, if a dodge is passed and I DT to make them go prone, do they re-roll the dodge? Is it with the DT modifier?

I realise this isn't worded very well, so could someone go through it for me

[Skummy]

I've also had problems with the search. You can decide to DT after the dodge roll is made, just like everything else in the LRB (until they finally fix PO, that is).

[Darkson]

Ok, say player A dodges away. Rolls and succeeds. I DT so he fails. Can he re-roll, and if so, are there any modifiers, and am I already prone?

[DoubleSkulls]

Ok, say player A dodges away. Rolls and succeeds. I DT so he fails. Can he re-roll, and if so, are there any modifiers, and am I already prone?

He can use dodge to reroll, but the -2 still applies to the 2nd roll. That's why its great with tackle and/or shadowing.

[High & Mighty]

But if he dodges, fails, uses the dodge skill to reroll and succeeds, you can then use diving tackle to cause him to fail and he can't reroll.

Correct?

[Joaquim]

But if he dodges, fails, uses the dodge skill to reroll and succeeds, you can then use diving tackle to cause him to fail and he can't reroll.

Correct?

Yes... I guess it is...


So, DT is used after a sucefull atempt to dodge away... if that player has unused dodge or any other re-roll he can do so, but with the -2 modifier....

The only question is: if the dodging player rerolls a 6... the DT one stays on the floor?... I guess yes....

The wording of the DT skill is a little confusing.... part is like it is used after the dodging player roll, part as if is before the roll....

Actually I guess the question is: when you declare the use of DT? After or before the dodge roll?!?!
Rereading the rule (for the 4th time) I guess you use it before the roll....


Darkson.... you confused me!!!!

[DoubleSkulls]

DT is used after the dodge roll is made. This can also be after a rerolled dodge.

So an AG4 player with dodge moves away from your diving tackle guy.

a) He rolls a '1' and fails so uses his dodge skill to reroll. He rolls a '3'. You declare use of DT, and he fails.

b) He rolls a '3' and succeeds, so you use DT. He has now failed so uses the dodge skill, rolling a '6' and skips away leaving you on the floor.

c) He rolls a '3' and succeeds, so you use DT. He has now failed so uses the dodge skill, rolling a '1' and falls flat on his face

d) He rolls a '6' and succeeds, DT makes no difference so you don't use it. He runs away and you stay upright.

I think that covers all the bases.

[Zombie]

It's all much simpler (and easier to comprehend as it makes more sense) if you have to declare it and go prone before the dodge roll, which is what we do.

[Sushé Wakka]

Yes, but Diving tackle has enough penalty as it is now (after the roll), so forcing to declare before the dodge roll is putting too much penalty on the skill, IMO. A -2 penalty in trade for going prone is a fair trade. A -2 penalty for going prone without even knowing if it will be of any use isn't really a good choice.

[Zombie]

Yes, but Diving tackle has enough penalty as it is now (after the roll), so forcing to declare before the dodge roll is putting too much penalty on the skill, IMO. A -2 penalty in trade for going prone is a fair trade. A -2 penalty for going prone without even knowing if it will be of any use isn't really a good choice.

That's how it worked in 4th ed, and people still took it. But then, OSPA probably had a lot to do with it as well.

We play that way and i still want it on a double for my troll, and on a normal 2nd or 3rd skill for my amazon catchers. It's still good.

But if you think it's too much risk for the reward, make it -3. But since diving tackle can easily cause turnovers, i think it's good enough at -2 even though we have to call it before.

[Joaquim]

I don't know what to say.... on one hand almost all skills are used after the roll, so it makes sense to declare DT after the dodge roll...
On the other hand the modifiers are calculated before the roll, so it makes sense to declare DT before the dodge roll....




I was reading the Oberwald on this.... and it says after (but it isn't official, for sure).... and mentions var A in wich skills that change the players position (like this and Pilling On) being declared before the roll....

Wasn't this is Galak clarifications list?!?

[Joaquim]

Yes, it was (is):

Discuss the merits of Diving Tackle and Piling On after the dice roll.

BBRC response: Both skills will stay after the dice roll, but will be considered again for the 2003 Review

Well, for this member answer I understand that for now the most official is using it after the roll....
But frankly, I don't see any clue in the rules....

[DoubleSkulls]

Well, for this member answer I understand that for now the most official is using it after the roll....
But frankly, I don't see any clue in the rules....

LRB 2.0 pp15

...you can choose to use a skill that affects a dice roll after rolling the dice. For example, you could say you were going to use the Catch skill either before or after making a Catch dice roll.

[GalakStarscraper]

Unlike Zombie, I GREATLY agree that Diving Tackle should stay declared made after the dodge roll. I use it on a lot of my players and making it a less effective skill is not the way to go and making it a -3 modifier doesn't work for me either.

Its really not that difficult to understand

Code: Select all

Unmod'd    DT Mod'd    Reroll/   2nd Unmod'd  2nd DT Mod'd   Dodger   DT
Dodge      Dodge       Dodge?    Dodge        Dodge          Final    Final
Roll       Roll                                              State    State

Fail       Fail        No        N/A          N/A            Down     Standing
Fail       Fail        Yes       Fail         Fail           Down     Standing
Fail       Fail        Yes       Success      Fail           Down     Prone
Fail       Fail        Yes       Success      Success        Away     Standing
Success    Fail        No        N/A          N/A            Down     Prone
Success    Fail        Yes       N/A          Fail           Down     Prone
Success    Fail        Yes       N/A          Success        Away     Prone
Success    Success     N/A       N/A          N/A            Away     Standing

This should help if you have difficulty understanding. I've not really had a problem understanding how this skill works.

[Bevan]

Galak's table of events left out one additional complication.

The dodging Ogre has Break Tackle rolls 4 so passes the dodge roll without needing Break tackle.

The opposing player now declares the use of Diving Tackle so the dodge fails.

TheOgre now says he will use Break Tackle (he wanted to save it for later in that move) and will pass the dodge.

The opponent then says if you are using Break Tackle I won't use Diving tackle after all, since if two skills affect a dice roll the moving player has to declare the use of his skill first.

Now the Ogre has dodged successfully, but his break tackle has been used up even though the Diving Tackle player is still standing so Break tackle was not actually necessary.

This gets more complicated if you include dodge skill or rerolls in here but I won't try to draw up a table.