Big Guys and Boxcars

[mattgslater]

Okay, so your rookie Big Guy rolls double-six on his first improvement. Do you give him +ST? Does it change the scenario if it's a later improvement, and he has only normal skills?

[mattgslater]

I voted 1A, but would take a double on a Tomb Guardian, Ogre-team Ogre, or Pact Ogre/Troll. I might also take the double on a Warpstone Troll, Goblin Troll or Kroxigor. But on a Human Ogre or Orc Troll (the teams I play a lot), I'd always take the +ST.

[inkpwn]

Always the double skill they are much safer with block. (Or wrestle if your a crazy weirdo)
Also 40k for +ST on a big guy with horns. No thanks. That 2 die block with block is safer (to my knowledge) than a 3 die block without it.

[cyagen]

St5 + block is much better than St6 on a rookie big guy.

[sunnyside]

I'm behind block as well.

Frequently the same number of dice would be thrown with the higher strength as with the lower one. And the guy can be tied up or dodged away from all the same. I can't say I find myself thinking "Arg! If only my big guy had a higher strength" the way I do with s3 guys, and neither compare to the frustration of a double pow/skull or the unintelligible gibbering after a 3 die block turnover(which almost always would be prevented by block).

As an added bonus it's harder to shove off a big guy with a defenders choice block if they have the block skill. So you get maybe a third of the utility of stand firm along with it.

While I'm no nurgle expert yet, I think the BoN is the exception because of the obvious synergy, and that they're likely to take stand firm early anyway.

I dunno about a second doubles vs +st. But for the negaskill+loner big guys it'd be tempting to take Pro, side step could be evil, diving tackle could provide a little BoN feel on non mutie teams, and dodge is tempting for squishy snow trolls at least.

[mattgslater]

Hmmm... I find that on an Orc team, a Block Troll is nice, but a ST6 Troll is prohibitive. Once I get him Stand Firm, nobody touches him. With Block, he still takes shots from Big Guys. I stick him on my strong midfield point, or even run him on an island on an exotic line or backfield formation. Guard or Grab at 31 SPP. ST6+SF+Guard is all kinds of awesome, and with Grab you've got a (stupid) rostered Ripper for 3d chains. Block is just better than worthless for this play: +ST adds a third to the success chance on this maneuver (twice the cost of Really Stupid), and Block saves less than 1% of a TRR and just about half a percent of a turnover. I could totally see going the other way on a Human Ogre, or on any Big Guy that I cared primarily about hitting stuff with.

Likewise, ST7 on a Wood Elf Treeman is awesome. Nothing will block him. He doesn't need a Guard player to be a 3d guy on Grab chains, and he doesn't have a chance of blowing it on an anti-skill. 3d Grab chains are even better with Wood Elves, because they allow for easy 1TTDs without stat increases or crazy die rolls. It's also good against really heavy lines to drive Guard big guys out of position without having to hit them (especially the stupid ones, if you can get them alone). That's not an Orky maneuver: the Orcs just deconstruct and refute every DL out there, so Grab is only really good for getting/threatening backfield blocks. The ST7 Treeman is also deadly on defense, as he can play on an island and extend your oblique LOS play into a coherent chain all the way across the pitch. Such a player is simply unfair.

But yeah, on teams without a ton of ST and Block, or on players who need to deliver the hits, I would probably take Block, maybe with a little hesitation.

[cyagen]

I agree that they are special cases that could make a +1 ST better than block.

Some where mentionned above but also:

- Troll on a Pact team
- Treemen

And finally the Beast of Nurgle and the Wrapstone Troll that benefit more from Pro than Block.

[stick_with_poo_on_the_end]

Matt. What the hell is an exotic island line formation?

[Oly1987]

i find with a human ogre block is always the first choice. +Str might seem tempting but you'll probably still find yourself doing 2 block dice. With this in mind you'll probably find block to be much more effective

[TuernRedvenom]

I take +STR on the BoN. Great with tentacles. Never regretted it.

[mattgslater]

Matt. What the hell is an exotic island line formation?

On an island = With no neighboring players
On an exotic line = On a LOS that isn't a typical setup. (Typical: 101, 202, 123. Exotic: 211, 103, etc.)
On an exotic line or backfield formation = On a LOS or backfield setup that is atypical.

[Valen]

I would probably take the str, there is a chance you will roll another double for block, but a double 6? And if you do STR7 anyone

[B SIDE]

I'm going with the doubles across the board, with the +1 STR for the Beasty.

[Smurf]

I would probably take the str, there is a chance you will roll another double for block, but a double 6? And if you do STR7 anyone

That is not logical. A double is 1/6, if you take away 12 that makes it just over 1/7.

[Don__Vito]

Depends if I'm using a team with a Chocolate Fondue defence or a Multi-challenge Paper Bag Offence really...