Claw - any armour roll of 8 or more

[dode74]

The reason for the claw attrition has been to adjust for basically two teams, Orcs and Dwarves since they are the two high AV teams.

The dwarves would go from 3 8 AV players on the pitch to 5 close to double.
That is going to help other lower AV teams by:
1. Dwarves will be forced to carry more of a bench bloating their tv some.
2. Dwarves will have to protect their blitzers instead of using them to protect runner/slayers.
3. Blitzers are some of the few 3 agility players the dwarves have. Now all their 3 agility players would be easier to hurt.

I am not saying remove claw, just temper out it interacts with with MB and piling on.

For Orcs that is 4 aditional players that are 8 AV on their team which is a pretty big nerf. Their team goes from 1 runner with 8 av to 5 of 11 on the field being 8 av.

Piling on and MB not combing like they do would also be a big buff to 7 av teams.

Those things are buffs to all teams which play againtOrc/dwarf, not just to AV7 teams. Such a change is also known as a "nerf" to Orc/dwarf teams

[Darkson]

I reference new readers to seek out the current Claw poll before adding to this thread.

You mean the one cupcake is now ignoring?
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32476

[Pagan]

Hey it's only 55-6 in favor of not changing anything, jury is still out on that...

[Darkson]

And 3 of the 6 for change came from one person, so that's ok.

[cbbakke]

I reference new readers to seek out the current Claw poll before adding to this thread.

You mean the one cupcake is now ignoring?
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32476

Glad your still trolling.

I should have put the poll on the main forum, not this one. This is the town that helped Galak develop the current rules. Not a shocker that they support the rules they developed. Overall I would guess on the main forum that % wise more people would want it to remain the same but many people just resist any change.

If the poll would have been 50/50 people who don't want change would say that is not enough of a reason to change anything. If the poll was flipped then I would be accused of getting my family members to post on the poll.

I take the blame though, I should have set it up on the main forum but for the next six months it has provided great material for the trolls.

[Heff]

Darkson who I believe is the forum moderator trolls on his own site. I for one am loving this.

You don't think claw is balanced, we get that. But sadly you are on your own and the other poll says so. But now its your respondents fault that they don't agree with you.

[GalakStarscraper]

This is the town that helped Galak develop the current rules. \

Sorry Mate ... your history is pretty badly off (as normal).

TFF (or TBB) had little to do with the development of the rules. The vast vast vast majority of that work was done on the Specialist Games forums that GW had at the time. In fact ... most of the folks around on TFF when I was developing the current rules were against the changes of my work.

Now as days ... folks have had a chance to play it instead of theorizing ... and they've come to their own opinions. To suggest this is the crowd that was all pro-LRB 5.0 in the first place ... that's a really bad mistatement of history.

Tom

[dode74]

Darkson who I believe is the forum moderator trolls on his own site. I for one am loving this.

Not the first time - he accused me of trolling on the Cyanide forums too

[cbbakke]

So anyways. Dodes you asked how I would come up with a way to account for the attrition difference and your response makes no sense to me.

Yes it is a nerf on those teams, they are the teams that you have always been most worried about so it makes them not live as long.

The changes to piling suggested as well as Mighty blow effect everybody equally so it helps the 7 av players too.

I also never understood why dwarf lineman got tackle as a base skill. It is part of why they are such a pain in the arse at low team values especially for finesse teams. I had a game today with my amazons against dwarves. I ended up tying 1-1 but it took quite a bit of luck on my part to make it happen.

take tackle of lineman and put it on blitzers or troll slayers. Give lineman maybe stand firm since it makes more since with their holding formation theme.

combine that with lowering the AV blitzers would balance things nicely.


Ona completely unrelated note, big guys having loner, doubles for general skills and a negative seems like a little overkill. They are just so painful to use. But that is coming off my game of my ogre watching the flowers for half the game. Pretty colors.......

[daloonieshaman]

bout time to lock this thread up

[dode74]

So anyways. Dodes you asked how I would come up with a way to account for the attrition difference and your response makes no sense to me.

My first response (to your changes to claw) was that I already gave you the numbers for making claw a roll of 9+ to break armour.
My second was that your changes to PO would marginalise it as a skill even further - it's already last choice of many bash teams due to the downside it has.
My third response (to your changes to DP/fouling) was that it is not simple (a design requirement) and it effects all AVs equally, which is NOT what I asked for. What I asked for was a "simple (simplicity being a design requirement for JJ as has been stated by Galak - I'll try to find the link if you like) on-field mechanic (the removal of off-field mechanics being a design goal for later LRBs and the CRP) [which would] increase that attrition rate back to where it should be."

Now, what exactly do you not understand?

Yes it is a nerf on those teams, they are the teams that you have always been most worried about so it makes them not live as long.

The changes to piling suggested as well as Mighty blow effect everybody equally so it helps the 7 av players too.

The changes need to NOT effect AV7. AV7 attrition is where it should be. So are all the other attrition rates, but you want to change claw and change those rates, so I am asking how you will leave AV7 attrition where it should be and reinstate the attrition for AV8+ back to where it should be after you nerf claw.

I also never understood why dwarf lineman got tackle as a base skill. It is part of why they are such a pain in the arse at low team values especially for finesse teams. I had a game today with my amazons against dwarves. I ended up tying 1-1 but it took quite a bit of luck on my part to make it happen.

take tackle of lineman and put it on blitzers or troll slayers. Give lineman maybe stand firm since it makes more since with their holding formation theme.

combine that with lowering the AV blitzers would balance things nicely.

Ona completely unrelated note, big guys having loner, doubles for general skills and a negative seems like a little overkill. They are just so painful to use. But that is coming off my game of my ogre watching the flowers for half the game. Pretty colors.......

Is there any relevance of this section to claw?

[alternat]

I had a game today with my amazons against dwarves. I ended up tying 1-1 but it took quite a bit of luck on my part to make it happen.

you're a good player, then, or a lucky one.
amazons are expected to shit bricks when they face dwarves, not to win with ease.

by the way, the goal of the game is not to win with ease with every team against every opponent...

p.s.: dode, I think that all these arguments are quite relevant with the claw issue, because each and every one tend to show that the game is too hard for him and too easy for others...

[cbbakke]

It is relevent to claw because part of why claw is the way it is was because dwarves are so tough to deal with. Part of way dwarves are so hard to deal with is because of so much tackle.

[dode74]

Dwarves aren't hard to deal with though! Interestingly, dwarves all come with a great claw-mitigation skill - thick skull! It reduces the chance of them being removed from the pitch by about 15%.

[cbbakke]

I have no idea what your last post is suppose to mean.