Help on skilling up 2 Pestigors with doubles

[mattgslater]

Yeah.

[Greedy_Snitch]

Thanks! I'll try it out.

[Smeborg]

I think the Pestigors need Tackle soon.

[Greedy_Snitch]

Now I have played another game, against Khemri this time. 2-1 Tried out the I-zig but my NW w (only) Block was MNG, I bought another rotter to make up for his place. Opponent played well, but those SF NW are a real pain if I may say so myself. He couldn't get to my ball carrier during my half, and I could just make a run for it with my rookie Pest to secure the win.

So, skilled up the rookie pest to Block. Either I go for ball handler here or MB, Claw.

My Wrestle Pest also skilled up, but I haven't decided yet what to take. Frenzy or Tackle. Since my block/tackle rotters days are numberd, I need Tackle very soon as you say. I have limited and/or bad experience with frenzy players, especially those that I have skilled up myself (apart from say troll slayers). I tend to forget which is the frenzy player and which are not, and find myself in bad positions. But I have met quite a few opponents that have used wrestle/frenzy pests/beastmen with good result. I just don't know. The Wrestle/Tackle combo also has its disadvantages, I think.

[MKL]

My Wrestle Pest also skilled up, but I haven't decided yet what to take. Frenzy or Tackle. Since my block/tackle rotters days are numberd, I need Tackle very soon as you say. I have limited and/or bad experience with frenzy players, especially those that I have skilled up myself (apart from say troll slayers). I tend to forget which is the frenzy player and which are not, and find myself in bad positions. But I have met quite a few opponents that have used wrestle/frenzy pests/beastmen with good result. I just don't know. The Wrestle/Tackle combo also has its disadvantages, I think.

About the Wrestle Pestigor: I'm a huge fan of the Frenzy skill, but if you have trouble with this skill maybe you can avoid it now, and successively give frenzy to a Pestigor who already got Side Step. Frenzy is much more manageable on such players.

By the way: SideStep-Frenzy on the wide zones + StandFirm midfielders is a nasty combo.

[mattgslater]

If you have one Wrestle Pest and can remember who he is, and you give him Frenzy, you'll never forget who your Wrestle/Frenzy guy is. But yeah, that or Tackle.

[Carnis]

Personally I have got huge benefits out of dodge and jump up pestigors. A JU pestigor is insane with MBPOClaw, just impossible to not get a blitz with him every turn for an extremely devastating almost 1 ko/cas/turn.

The other bit is dodge for ballcarrying types, or for a blitzer/sweeper. It really helps for blitzing to have a few "safe" 3+ dodges you can try. As an early double I'd hence look at dodge & a safety build and a late double after killy skills would be jump up.

[Greedy_Snitch]

Taking Your advice, I went for Frenzy on the Wrestle Pestigor. I only made one mistake with him in the recent game, were I forgot about frenzy and almost put him on the sideline during a block. But I got Pow+Push so I managed anyway.

So, last game was against High Elf. He had a Wrestle +1 ST Lineman that managed to take down a SF NW on the line, and then rush 3 guys in between my 2 safties, by blitzing a midfieldning rotter. Then he rushed with his Accurate NoS thrower up and tried to pass the ball. However, he fumbled the ball (he must have rolled double 1’s since he of course has Safe Throw and should only drop the ball on natural 1. He was within 2 DP clouds but I am not sure that safe throw is perfectly implemented in the game. I have to look it up in the replay when I get home from work today.) Anyway, it was quite certain that he hadn’t met Nurgle before since his 3 designated catchers were also within 2 DP clouds. So, ball scattered, I surrounded the ball with SF NW and started pounding those elfs. Scored in turn 8. In the second half I had numerical advantage, 9 vs 11, but pouring rain made my life difficult. My frenzy guy excelled and crowdsurfed 2 elfs. I thought I could secure 1 more TD, but he went kamikaze with his Sidestepping Dodge +1 AG Blitzer and managed to take down my Pest. So surrounding the ball I just waited for the match to end.

1-0 win. I leveled up one of the SF NW, and took tentacles on him just as Matt advised.

Current lineup:

Beast: Stand Firm, Break tackle
NW: Block, Stand Firm, Tentacles
NW: Block, Stand Firm
NW: Block, Stand Firm
NW: Block
Pestigor: Block, Sidestep
Pestigor: Block, Sidestep
Pestigor: Block
Pestigor: Wrestle, Frenzy
Rotter: Block, Tackle
Rotter: Block
Rotter: Block
2 Rerolls,
TV 1700k

This is turning into a TFF advisers team. Thanks for your help

[Ullis]

You have a TV of 1700 and have zero Guard and serious hitting skills (MB or Claws or PO). My concern is that you're going to get into trouble soon against Orcs, Chaos, another Nurgle or Dwarves.

[mattgslater]

Yeah, you've now packed up enough positioning and dragging-down skills that it's probably time to think about Guard as a next skill on all those NWs (now that you have a Tentacles NW to play opposite the Beast). It's not terrible to be out-Guarded with Nurgle, as you're strong enough that you'll get 2d everywhere anyway, and a Guard-heavy team will get 2d everywhere against you no matter how much Guard you have. But yeah, a little Guard would be a great thing right now.

[Greedy_Snitch]

You are right. With this build I am now quite successful against non-bashy teams. The heaviest I have met so far is Khemri, where I have 1 victory and 1 draw. I have not met Dwarves, Chaos, Orcs or Nurgle yet.

NW’s will now go for Guard, and the Blocking only Pest will take MB and then Claw or Tackle, depending on which of him and Wrestle boy hits 3 skills first.

As you know, with matchmaking I have no clue what the next opponent will be. Perhaps I should buy 1 or 2 Rotters just in case, to put on the line as meatbags if I meet a heavy bash team?

[Smeborg]

You have a TV of 1700 and have zero Guard and serious hitting skills (MB or Claws or PO). My concern is that you're going to get into trouble soon against Orcs, Chaos, another Nurgle or Dwarves.

That does not worry me unduly. I am more concerned at the lack of ball movement skills (e.g. Sure Hands, Kick-off Return, Extra Arms), and the small amount of Tackle and Wrestle (one of each).

[Smeborg]

You are right. With this build I am now quite successful against non-bashy teams. The heaviest I have met so far is Khemri, where I have 1 victory and 1 draw. I have not met Dwarves, Chaos, Orcs or Nurgle yet.

NW’s will now go for Guard, and the Blocking only Pest will take MB and then Claw or Tackle, depending on which of him and Wrestle boy hits 3 skills first.

As you know, with matchmaking I have no clue what the next opponent will be. Perhaps I should buy 1 or 2 Rotters just in case, to put on the line as meatbags if I meet a heavy bash team?

Greedy - may I suggest that the Pestigors with Sidestep may be good candidates for Guard? They are more mobile when it comes to escorting the ball carrier. And it would enable you to carry on with your max Tentacles strategy.

All the best.

[Smeborg]

A JU pestigor is insane with MBPOClaw, just impossible to not get a blitz with him every turn for an extremely devastating almost 1 ko/cas/turn.

Hi, Carnis. I'm just trying to get on the same page as your maths for this one. In my book, 5/9 (knockdown probablility) x .5845 (KO/CAS probablility) is .3247, or about one third. Even if you assume a defenseless victim (no Block) the odds are 3/4 x .5845 = .4384, which is still below half. Even going as far as I can, by using a team-re-roll to improve the odds of a knockdown, I get .4690 and .5480. All of these are a long way from "almost 1 ko/cas/turn". Am I missing something?

All the best.

[mattgslater]

Greedy - may I suggest that the Pestigors with Sidestep may be good candidates for Guard? They are more mobile when it comes to escorting the ball carrier. And it would enable you to carry on with your max Tentacles strategy.

My main concern with this is that there is zero defensive synergy between Guard (midfield/flanker/line skill) and the winger role those players play on defense. I tend to play SS as a cage-screen on offense, too, minimizing the impact of Guard on that type of player, as he's never close to the blitz unless he's soaking up the hits. The advantage of this strategy is that by screening off the cage you pretty much automatically defeat leaping cagebreaks. The best skills for that role are hoser skills like Tackle and mobility skills like Two Heads, both of which are incidentally great skills for wingers. Guard on NWs in the X-cage is very powerful, however. Two of them can pretty much guarantee that a ST3 blitzer can only half-die the carrier, if he can get there at all (a tall order).

I do agree that you may want to develop a carrier, if only for when/if you go down men or receive without TRRs. Pest #4 is the obvious target for Sure Hands, but since the carrier skills are all G or M skills, you can also use a Rotter this way (if you don't mind eventually having to replace him). If you have enough RRs, you may forgo SH in favor of Extra Arms, to boost your SPP rate by "bobbing for comps". I'd be hesitant to recommend this if it weren't for the ease with which this particular Nurgle team can defend the cage against Strip Ball types.

I'm not nearly as high on Piling on as Carnis seems to be. In particular, PO is a poor spam skill for a control team, though it is a nice toolbox piece. It would make sense to build either the Wrenzy or Block Pest as a killer; you can't game to win on numerical advantage with this team (and you don't have to), but you can develop a nasty surgical strike. Since most victims for such an attack have Block, I'd probably do this with the Wrestle guy, getting him MB and PO rather than Tackle. Yes, I know the book on Wrestle/MB is that it's suboptimal, but with PO you don't have to plan on putting two of your guys prone, and with your emphasis on positioning and control you don't need Tackle as much as you otherwise would.