Why are the skaven rated so highly?

[TalonBay]

Most polls I've seen rate the skaven right up there with the top teams but what is it that puts them there? I've recently started playing them in a league and have put in some practice online to prepare so I don't have a lot of experience with them (20 games or so, probably about 50-50 W/L).

They're obviously not a bash team but I've found they lack the killer offense of the pro/wood/high elves and they can't do the dark elf trick of playing the opposite to your opponent (bash vs crunchy team, out-skill a bash team). Sure they can score better than most others, but there's a lot of pressure to score every time because they suck at defense (at least in my hands!). Once you've lost a handful of players then the scoring is much harder.

On defense the various elves can survive ok and slow down an opponents offense, mass blodge and AG4 means they can keep dodging away in front of the cage until the killer assault to rip out the ball. The majority of the skaven can't dodge for toffee so it's suicide to try generally, there's limited access to agility skills so they can't blodge up and the only serious potential leap pieces are ST2 so throwing them into a cage is high risk.

I'm finding that when I win either my opponent is unlucky (loose balls are great), a couple of high risk moves come off for me or I get ahead in the attrition war and score too many before they recover. When I lose the dice have turned against me (a series of 2's are often fatal, not just 1's) or the opponent has played a steady game without major mishap and just ground it out with often little the skaven can do.

They are the most dice dependent team I've played IMO and while they can take the fight to the top teams with the dice behind them it doesn't take much for them to sink like a stone.

I'm probably playing them wrong (certainly I'm not enjoying them), any suggestions how they should be played?

[nazgob]

I can only answer briefly, as my experience is limited, but here goes.

Cheap linemn. Yes theyre av7. Yes theyre ag3. But theyre fast, and there cost allows you to max out on rerolls and positionals early on.

The rat ogre - one of the best big guys in the games.

Gutter runners. Nuff said.

[Lunchab1es]

The gutter runners are the biggest reason they are competitive. 4ag and extreme speed mean these guys can pull of some insane plays, often making something out of nothing.

[inkpwn]

What naz said, plus here's my team motto:
Skaven are that rare blend of disposable yet invunerable that makes for the perfect henchmen.

They also mutate on doubles,and only one elf mutates in blood bowl and he only has MA6.

[mattgslater]

I think Skaven are one of the better teams, but a lot of your criticisms are legitimate.

Skaven are a great team for the long haul, despite their low MA. Yes, their players turn over a lot, but they're cheap, they can make do with Journeymen, and their development curve is pretty wicked.
If they get smacked down, they have the best stars in the game. Fezglitch is just amazing against speedy opposition, and fairly good against bash, and since they have cheap G-access players, they can easily get double-duty on a Bribe. Against an overdog smash team, a Wizard is an all-but guaranteed tempo TD. Wandering Apothecaries and Bloodweiser Babes are also a great bargain.

The Gutter Runners are some of the best players in the game, and a good contender for the best value gold-for-gold, up there with the Chaos Warrior. They improve very quickly, and since the team can have four, they're easy to replace. Having good Gutter Runners makes it easy to buff the Throwers and Stormvermin, and to turn Linerat MVPs into tougher Linos and/or a kicker. Not only are they capable of great opportunity plays, they can play keep-away very well, two of them delivering the ball 20 squares and earning a Comp on a 25/27 shot (with a TRR) with no chance of injury. Since one GR has up to three such targets, and since the six-plus AG3/MA7 targets (18 squares, 5/6 chance), it's very hard to stop this.

The Stormvermin have S access, and can take Guard. Elf teams do not have anything like that. They can also build good killers, which many elf teams can also do. Unlike most elf teams (the exception being the Wood Elves, the "best" team in the game), they have a big guy too, which makes a big difference.

The Linerats are much-maligned because they're not very good at the most important thing and they don't develop well without doubles or stats. But if you take away that major flaw (the only major flaw in the team), they otherwise look pretty good, at MA7, AG3 and 50k. And while they kind of suck as blockers, they're not horrid, just chumpy.

I don't feel like finding a link to my stats on Assistant Coaches, Cheerleaders and Fan Factor, but nobody gets more from the kickoff table than Skaven! They also benefit from the weather table. Don't get me wrong; nobody likes Pouring Rain, but some people dislike it more than others, and those people aren't furry with long tails, AG4 players and Sure Hands players who have M access on doubles.

Speaking of M access on doubles, it leads to many derailments, some of them benign. This team can have a lot of fun stuff. I'm recalling a ST3/AG5/Wrestle/Horns Gutter Runner in our Champions league. Yes, any player is a star with rolls like that, but that guy was a super game-breaker. That same team also has a Thrower with Block, AG4, Big Hand, Nerves of Steel and Leap; loose balls don't last long. Having nine rostered positionals often means you can build different Skaven teams different ways. There's a fairly good team in our league with no Throwers.

The defense is one of the best cage-cracking defenses too; only Wood Elves and Dark Elves are clearly better. A tough opponent who doesn't get Nuffled or make any mistakes can usually grind on them, but no worry: just don't get too many of your guys killed, and you'll likely pull off a one-turner to even the score.

I've crushed and been crushed by Skaven. I don't like coaching them, and I do think they're a great Agility team for beginners, as a few lucky rolls can sometimes guarantee a win even against a better team with a better coach. They play well as an underdog Also, unlike Wood Elves, they can quickly recover from even the worst of shellackings.

[Pagan]

The gutter runners are the biggest reason they are competitive. 4ag and extreme speed mean these guys can pull of some insane plays, often making something out of nothing.

Damn Gutter Runners. Easily the stars of the team, they are almost always a threat to score a touchdown, and their 2 STR isn't as much of a handicap as you would hope.

Lost a final recently where I had the Skaven down to three players on the field(two standing), and the rats still managed one hell of a turn to get the ball out of a nice cage and end up breaking the tie to win 2-1.

They do go squish a lot, especially the Linerats, but even with journeyman you really don't care. With the skill players on the field they are a threat to score even down 3-4 players at the start of a drive.

[Dzerards]

The things I've seen a Skaven team do! I once put 5 Skaven in the CAS box in the first 4 turns and still lost the game 2-3 to the remaining 6 guys! That said, better coaches than me will grind them into dust.

The kick skill and the GRs hunting in packs behind his line before the cage forms should keep the pressure on so he doesn't have the luxury of smashing everyone up. You should win or at least tie most games, but you have to be pro-active. Once a bash team gets the ball to safety into the cage it can be quite costly for you to extract it again.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Skaven are that rare blend of disposable yet invunerable that makes for the perfect henchmen.

thanks for reminding me to watch venture brothers again

it's totally true though. skaven are hell to play against because unless you can deal with ALL of the gutter runners... well, you just cant stop them.
I've got a game this weekend against a 180ish skaven team with a ma10 sprint gutter runner with my 230 chaos, and well, the only thing i can think of to win that game is to pray that i force him to field that freak in the second half so i can smash him and remove his end game ott chance... that is, without the push play.

[inkpwn]

Skaven are that rare blend of disposable yet invunerable that makes for the perfect henchmen.

thanks for reminding me to watch venture brothers again

I'm glad someone finally noticed, best show ever! (My skaven are also going to be black and yellow)

[Carnis]

They have an almost impossible to stop offence, and in the right hands, their defence is extremely strong.

Check out some of Flix's replays (click the green D before the match for the matchreport page, click the replay link at the matchrep page):

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=640392

Sure they die fast, but they excess extreme control of the pitch with elementary skillups (Blodge on gutters, guard on blitzers). Also they get all the essential skills without doubles (ga gutters, ma9 - guard/mb blitzers).

[juck101]

Skaven are great.

Personally I dont like them that much so I think thats because the have the flair of elf, but can play a more bash general game. This for me is becuase the are a mid range strenght/ag team which can exploit the ag side to a huge extent.

Compare the 2 blitzer with ST access to 4
Comapre the 4 ag4 catchers to 2 ag3 ones (bluuurh)
2 throwers to 2 throwers
Big guy to Big guy
Crap cheap linemen to crap cheap linemen


About here I should reiterate the points above the GT are amazing. The hidden factor is the other players aint bad either which is why they are good in the hands of many.

[nick_nameless]

If nothing else, having the only Mv9 piece(s) in the game combined with mutation access for everyone (sure, on doubles...but most teams can never get at those skills at all) is just...wonderful.

[Joemanji]

Skaven can be great early on, as with not many skills about the pace and agility of the Gutter Runners allows them to capitalise on bad dice or errors from the opposing team. I think they weaken late on, as other teams develop the skills to deal with the Rat Ogre and rub that AV7 into the dirt.

[TalonBay]

They have an almost impossible to stop offence, and in the right hands, their defence is extremely strong.

Sure they die fast, but they excess extreme control of the pitch with elementary skillups (Blodge on gutters, guard on blitzers). Also they get all the essential skills without doubles (ga gutters, ma9 - guard/mb blitzers).

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

It's the pitch control that I don't see at the moment, all those rubbish linemen get stuck too easily leaving the other guys exposed.

[Coach Grievous]

I cut my teeth on the Blood Bowl cheese with Skaven ("Les Miserables"). They're an excellent team which lives and dies by the Gutter Runners, but you can't just expect them to win by themselves so think combined arms warfare! I always found their ability to play when undermanned to be rather awe-inspiring, which is good, because that's what you're going to be doing a lot. Theory goes that by that point you should be leading already and that's all good, but I'd urge you to develop the team into ball retrievers par excellence even when outnumbered.

They can already make any mistake by the opponent very costly, so capitalize on that. Blodge + Sidestep on the GRs is unimaginative, but effective. The control of the field comes from that combo and the immense MA on those things.

You'll need GRs with Blitzing power too though. Think ninjas! So, Dauntless or Horns are good (leaning on just Dauntless these days). Usually I dislike Strip Ball (it's rather situational and tends to fail spectacularly against me at least), but for these vermin I'd consider it as part of the toolkit, because they have the reach. Any Guard you can bring will help, of course. A Leaper is a must. And always keep a GR in scoring position (they have impressive hand-off range so that's pretty much the entire field, heh).

I personally like building my Blitzvermin as killers, but that's my preference and certainly not the only way to go (Guard is pretty hot). It's part of my game plan where I make opponent's afraid of my team, so Claw + MB + Piling On is excellent and necessary for that purpose. Add in a Dirty Player to boot and a willingness to use it often.

The Linerats are the support pieces that get stuck in and break the opponent's plays by being annoying or provide specialist skills. Don't get attached to these guys. Back when I played Skaven there was no Wrestle, but that's a godsend skill to this team (along with Fend). I would have some specialists though: a fouler and a kicker, at least.

Why go for intimidation on this team? Partly because it's just how I want to roll with the Skaven, but I also see it having a beneficial effect on what the opponent chooses to do on the field. Being afraid of his key pieces dying AND having trouble protecting the ball sounds good to me. Also, makes his Blitz decisions harder: go for the GRs harassing the ball or go for the killers nailing his guys? You decide, I exploit. When I played them extensively, my Skaven were among the most hated teams in the league for these tactics. That might not be for everyone.

Overall, it's a team that thrives on taking risks, so it's a very different play-style from dwarves and the like. Just don't throw your wits out of the equation when assimilating that idea - the game is still largely about risk management and thinking your ninjas can beat Chuck Norris head on will end badly for you.

Usually, I prefer a team that develops evenly, but with the Skaven I personally wouldn't worry too much about that (though the introduction of Wrestle does make getting it on the Linerats very enticing). The team has its stars, so I play with that in mind. Any GRs that die can be skilled pretty damned fast, too. The Blitzvermin are more annoying to skill up once lost.

Those are my quick thoughts on the subject.