Rookie Dwarf Team

[pauli42]

Kickoff Return on one Runner, fo sho.

Yea Matt thats another very good point. So what do you think about this skillup for my runners?

Plan A
1. Runner: Block, Fend, Kickoff Return, Strip Ball
2. Runner: Block, Fend, Kick, Strip Ball

or

Plan B
1. Runner: Block, Fend, Strip Ball, Kickoff Return
2. Runner: Block, Fend, Strip Ball, Kick

or

Plan C
1. Runner: Block, Fend, Kickoff Return, Strip Ball
2. Runner: Block, Fend, Strip Ball, Kick

Normaly i play the 2:1 grind, so there are only 3 kickoff's and 50% of the league teams have kick atm...


@Matt: I listn to your orc interview on the Three Die Block-Podcast and i will take your hints for Stand Firm as the second skill and your grab-tactic...u did a very good job..thank you!

[Smurf]

Could you do it without block? How often does your runner use it... is it a comfort skill?

[pauli42]

Could you do it without block? How often does your runner use it... is it a comfort skill?

A dwarf without block..no way! U need block on the ball carrier to stay upright and you need it in the defense to use the runners as backyard blitzers (MA6).

[B SIDE]

Matt's right. There's no doubt in my mind that the first skill you get for a Runner should be Kick Off Return. Then probably Block and Fend (Sure Feet on doubles).

If you really want to build a runner for defense you should go with Wrestle, then Tackle. And I'd give some consideration to Pass Block down the road. A dwarf team with a bunch of Stand Firm Guard guys are likely to see some passes. (Maybe a coach who has more experience with Dwarves will tell me that I'm wrong on that.)

[mattgslater]

Can't advise on Strip Ball. I think it's an elf skill. AG3+Strip = suck.

[pauli42]

Can't advise on Strip Ball. I think it's an elf skill. AG3+Strip = suck.

Do you mean Pass Block and AG3 right? Or what's the connection between Strip Ball and AG?

[mattgslater]

Well, whenever you use Strip Ball, you can assume the ball will land in at least one enemy TZ. With a low-AG team, you can put zones on the ball, which may or may not be a game-changer. With a high-AG team, you can pick the ball up and get it out of the opponent's reach, which is usually a game-changer (and if it fails, puts zones on the ball).

There's also the negatability issue with Strip Ball. Most teams have some quick and easy counter, whether it's a Sure Hands player or a cage game that makes Dwarfs want to grind rather than punch out, or the ability to control space and keep the ball away from the slow-moving Dwarf team.

You have to get a non-SH carrier within blitzing range. On Agility teams this often happens as part of a surgical cage-break, which is usually 1d or 2d against. You have no such option, and if you grind down a cage you can usually get 2d in your favor (or if you can't, it's your fault; you're supposed to have several Guard players by the time your Runners get to 3 skills).

If receivers with the ball are a regular problem for you, it means your opponents are too quick to chuck it, and it probably means your safeties are blocking Dodge players. There are two facile responses: scheme to blitz with Slayers (not always easy; MA5 isn't that hot), or take Tackle or Kick on the one who doesn't get KOR, and get Stand Firm on both Blitzers to play the wing positions. Because Tackle isn't a great spam skill and you have a ton of it by default, I'd do this.

#1: Block, Fend, Kickoff Return, Accurate, Pass (Dodge on doubles; I wouldn't have given him Fend...)
#2: Block, Fend, Kick, Tackle, Pro (Sidestep on doubles)

[pauli42]

Thanks Matt...now i really get your point!

And yes, atm is my problem that i dont have my two winger players with stand firm. So there are some situations that i get overruned on the wings and i only have a blitz option left with one of my runners (they are covering my backyard with MA6). Thats the reason for my strip ball question, just to pop off the ball to avoid a direct touchdown. And picking up the ball with one guy near is a four for my runners + sure hands...not so impossible.

PS: Fend saved my ass so many times, i love it on the runners. One reason is there are a lot of frenzy killers in my leaque and its nice for a cage corner too...

[dines]

I think you need to look at your defensive setup rather than strip ball if you let opponents into your backfield with the ball. What about having your slayers as safeties, they should be able to down opponent recievers.

I totally agree with Matt, strip ball is NOT a good skill for a dwarf. Imo it might have some uses for skavens, woodies and slaans, else there is always another more useful skill to pick.

[pauli42]

Normaly this is my offense setup, the both runners covers mostly of the backfield and i have atm not really a problem to get the ball after a kick. How exactly will the extra +3 mv from kickoff return helps me? I see the great kick counter, especially for my short leg dwars but its worth a skillup? I like to have two similiar runners, so i dont care if the ball goes to runner1 or runner2.

I am very sorry to stress this topic, but your knowlege and experiences are gold for me

[TuernRedvenom]

Normaly this is my offense setup, the both runners covers mostly of the backfield and i have atm not really a problem to get the ball after a kick. How exactly will the extra +3 mv from kickoff return helps me? I see the great kick counter, especially for my short leg dwars but its worth a skillup? I like to have two similiar runners, so i dont care if the ball goes to runner1 or runner2.

I am very sorry to stress this topic, but your knowlege and experiences are gold for me

If the ball goes deep into a corner vs an elf team you're definately in trouble! If you miss the pickup you're in very big trouble. Or when there's a blitz kickoff event...
Those runners are too far forward IMO. It's always better to start deep and get more forward movement from turn 1 then having to backtrack. I would put them at least 2, possibly even 3 squares further back.

[mattgslater]

That formation is really susceptible to Kick, and doesn't take advantage of the initiative edge of the offense to build momentum. No me likey. Too many people treat offense like defense.

For one thing, unless the kickoff roll is a 10, there is no advantage (and a huge disadvantage) in starting offensive players on the wing, unless the plan is to break through on the wide zone. This is strictly a speed tactic, unsuitable for Dwarfs, and even then it can be kept to one wing because on offense there's no penalty for telegraphing your moves (the D gets no time to respond).

As an offensive setup, you should stack the line with 5 or more players, and use the others to make sure you can cage on the ball in the backfield. Putting three guys on the LOS is the default when you kick, but when you receive, you have to win on the line, and whoever you don't need on the line should be able to reposition before the defense takes its turn.

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This way, you can always build a structure on the ball, and if it goes really deep, you know you can retrieve and support your retriever. Overcommitting to the LOS on offense isn't a big deal; since the optimum goal is to cage on the line, any "wasted" actions from failure to knockdown can get translated into more cagers at the midfield. The symmetrical formation is particularly useful, because you can use directional blocking to drive the defenders off the ball and ensure you'll be able to cover and blitz on the play-side of the action. The Blitzers in the 2-column can get to the 3-column on the other side, one of the spine squares. At +3, they can alternately run downfield to -1, which is the square they need to get to in order to assist the blitz.

[pauli42]

Howto stop a heavy strong Nurgle Team to break through a wing?

My next game is against my toughest Opponent, a very strong Nurgle Team with lots of Claw, MB und ST+1. This Team goes all the time just one wing down. My normal Ziggurat cant stop them, so this time i will try out this formation:



On my left wing i will have:
- blocker with guard, Stand firm
- Slayer with MB, Side step, Tackle
- Blitzer with MB, Guard
- Runner with Block+Fend

On my right wing i will have:
- Slayer with Standfirm
- blocker with guard, MB
- Blitzer with MB, ST+1
- Runner with Block+Fend

My goal is to force him to the center of the pitch and then crush him with my dwarf from the other side.

What do u think about this?

[lemf]

This is an interesting post for me thanks.

I have just started a Dwarf team in a league but usually play Skaven or Woodies so expect this to be very different.

yes I started with a Deathroller, 1 runner 1 blitzer and 8 longbeards.

1st game v humans got a 2-0 win and skilled runner with kick return and gave a longbeard MB.

Now have 70K to spend and game against Lizards.

Buy a Longbeard or apoth? any suggestions?

[Urb]

This is an interesting post for me thanks.

I have just started a Dwarf team in a league but usually play Skaven or Woodies so expect this to be very different.

yes I started with a Deathroller, 1 runner 1 blitzer and 8 longbeards.

1st game v humans got a 2-0 win and skilled runner with kick return and gave a longbeard MB.

Now have 70K to spend and game against Lizards.

Buy a Longbeard or apoth? any suggestions?

You do realize you'll be immediately down one player after the first drive?