Dark Elf first season League

[El_Jairo]

Hi you all, I'm a big fan of this Forum and have been convinced that positional skills are the most important in this game.

I'm a Dark Elf fan, I'm playing the team as my favourite time since the first time I picked 10 years ago. I have learned a lot since then but I'm still looking to learn from all of you guys.

I know my biggest fault is overcommitting during defence and finding myself outmanoeuvred.

Well we are 7 games far at the first season of all rookie teams with a nice mix of bashy and agile teams.

After an OK record of 4/3/0 (12 points), I'm sitting in third place I still have a shot at the first place but no mistakes can be made. First are Pro Elves (4/0/3) (15 points) and second Necromantic (3/0/4) (13 points).

This is my actual team looks like this:

#1 Blitzer: Dodge, Side Step, 21SPP
#2 Blitzer: Tackle, 14SPP
#3 Blitzer: Dodge, 15SPP
#4 Blitzer: +MA, 6SPP
#5 Witch Elf: Wrestle, 6SPP
#7 Runner: Leader, 8SPP
#11 Line Elf: 3SPP
#12 Line Elf: Guard, 13SPP
#16 Line Elf: Kick, 11SPP
Journey Elf
Journey Elf 2

2x TRR
4 Fan Factor
1x Apothecary
70kGP Treasury

Team Value = 133

So far team development is looking OK, apart from poor winnings and already 3 Line Elves I had to let got (-AV, -ST and Niggling+RIP)

Next game is versus the first team in the league: Pro Elves. They have been dominating in the scoring standing but aren't dominating everything yet. In the lead with a 4/0/3 record so far. I'm looking to bring them their first defeat in this season to claim a chance a the title.

Their team is looking as following:
#1: Line Elf: Dodge, 6SPP
#2: Line Elf: Dodge, Block, 17SPP
#3: Line Elf: Dodge, 12SPP
#4: Line Elf: Block, 6SPP
#5: Line Elf: MNG
#10: Thrower: Strong Arm, 8SPP
#11: Catcher: Dodge, Block, Strip Ball, 49SPP
#12: Catcher: Dodge, MNG, 15SPP
#13: Catcher: 0SPP
#14: Blitzer: Dodge, 10SPP
#15: Blitzer: Dodge, 13SPP

3x TRR
5 Fan Factor
1x Apothecary
TV = 133

I don't have much experience with playing bash style but yesterday I played a training game with a rookie DE team VS Skaven and I used the 2-1 grind approach with success. Of course I need some luck to get the armour breaks in but when I have got the ball my mission is clear: get it safe in a cage in the hands of my thrower.

On defence I'm doubting between two set-ups: Classic Ziggurat with my guard Line Elf with the Journeymen on the line. My Blodge and " +SS Blitzers on the wings and WE and Tackle Blitzers on the flank. The other set up is with three central columns and lonely wingers. This would allow me to put the WE central but leave one flank relatively undefended because I only have one SS blitzer.
I am really torn between the two set-ups: the first gives me a better defensive position but the second one ensure more pressure on the wide zone to enable a blitz.
For now I'm leaning towards the classic Ziggurat because I lack the SS.

Next buy on my list is a Witch Elf and afterwards I'm considering: a Line Elf or an Assassin.

After this game a face the CD and so I most want to get block on my guard line Elf; and of course the second Witch.

For the moment we have the following other teams in the league:
2x Necro, DE, Dwarfs, Skaven, Lizardmen, CD and Orcs. Most experienced coaches are Pro Elves, other Dark Elves and Necromantic. This is why I'm considering to include an assassin in my team because I need the numbers game to win from them.

What do you think? I'm looking for tips for the next two games and some development pointers.

[Smeborg]

Hi El_Jairo -

My experience with Assassins is that they are good against AV7 teams and poor against AV9 teams. Against AV8 teams they are nothing special. Because of this asymmetry, I became frustrated with Assassins on the roster, since they are expensive, especially once they start to get skills. I now prefer to use them as inducements only.

Hope that helps.

[mattgslater]

You've already got Leader on the Runner, and you're way down men. You have to keep him; I wouldn't recommend him in your format, were this not the case. Leader is a good skill for your situation, because you have a lot of hires to make.

Don't bother with an Assassin until you've got 13 men on the roster already. As your 14th guy, he's got some real potential. He'd be good in the next match, but you can't take him because you're even on TV and you only have 70k in the bank.

If you're allowed to make purchases, hire an AC and a CL. You won't miss the 20k you burn, both sides could use an extra re-roll, and the EMD (expected meaningful drives) for this game is sky-high.

How many more games are you playing? If you're going on perpetually and you're just jockeying for position or for potentially one of many titles, you should save until you either get SPP on a Journeyman, lose a Witch or Blitzer, or have enough to go over 11 guys in one swell foop.

Score with the 3SPP Lino and/or the 13SPP lino, duh. This may mean carrying with a Blitzer and handing off or QP'ing. Having that Leader Runner is a good thing here. Get a Comp with the Dodge Blitzer and use the Tackle Blitzer to go after the Linos if possible (but any Dodge player if needed). You'll improve your odds of getting a Cas that way. If you're losing, you'll spend a lot of time on offense, perhaps earning a compensation prize or even giving yourself a chance to come from behind.

The general game against Pro Elves is very uniform. Kill the Catchers, keep your Witch up on a Blitzer or the star Catcher, and otherwise don't worry about matchups, except the usual "block non-Block players with Block players" bit. Kick deep; yes, he's mobile, but he has no Sure Hands or Safe Throw and has only two Catchers, so you can make it hard for him. Don't run any risk if stalling, unless it's T7 or you've taken out both Catchers. If you get the ball score, turn the game over. There's no reason you can't win a shootout.

You don't have enough Side Step or Tackle/Frenzy for this match. I have to say I'm not keen on your odds. You'll need to be a bit lucky.

A standard zig or a half-zig is perfectly appropriate, especially as he can't make a 2d opening block on the LOS without moving a player. Perhaps parallel midfielders cheated up to(L/R)3-1 and 2-1 are your best option, with the Witch as the inverted-wing flanker (playing safety at R6-3). That means he can't block 1d on the line (with or without blitzing) and needs to commit to open a hole on anything but a 1d block, and you can still drop back into coverage because of your AG4. Still, these things have a way of failing... so don't put too much faith in the opening structure, other than a 101 line with Guard on the nose and Journeymen neighbors.

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Heck, you could bring the Witch inside a bit and still protect the family jewels...

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If you win the coin-toss, kick. If you receive, use the Tackle Blitzer to make the third block on the line, from the playside 2-column.

Obviously, that Strip Ball Catcher is a threat, but playing good formations should keep him off the ball. If he goes up this game, his next opponent will have a harder game, especially if his Catchers escape you unscathed.

[El_Jairo]

Kudos for your feedback so far. About the nature of the league: it is the first season but I expect many to follow. So That's why I'm hanging on to my cash in order to buy my second WE ASAP. I was doubting if she was the best choice since afterwards I'll be facing the CD's but I'm quite confident it should be possible to keep her away from the dwarf blockers.

Thanx Matt for going the length of putting some set-ups in Code. This looks better than the standard ones I pulled of this forum.

The thing which surprised me however is to receive when I win the coin flip. Maybe I'm too impressed with my success vs the Skaven with grinding them. Pro Elves should be almost as easy to hurt as Skaven, right? Okay they can dodge on 2+ so won't be giving me as many blocks as the skaven but they'll be rolling many dice and I'm hoping to have them burn their TRR on defence to have maximum pressure on during my defence.
Writing this down makes me understand why I prefers Dodge on his Line Elves.

I'm undecided yet but in my experience Dark Elves tend to be outscored when they try to keep up in outscoring. So my idea was to exploit their weak point and try the attrition game. Sure it is random but statistics give me the upper hand in that one.

[mattgslater]

Pro Elves should be almost as easy to hurt as Skaven, right?

No, not at all. Skaven linerats have G access only and need a 3 to handle the ball. By contrast, his Pro Elves are easy to skill, and that's why they all have Dodge. You'll have to really win the matchup battle in order to have a chance at taking advantage of his poor AV.

Also, your team is rather brittle. Even if you give as good as you get, being down defenders is much harder than being down receivers. You need all 11 to have a good chance of beating his offense, and if you have them, your odds are excellent. If you had a true bash team I'd tell you to receive first, because you could really make hay out of early havoc. But your guys are the same ST as his guys, and if your team is more hitty, his is harder to knock down. So your bash advantage is well within the margin of the respective coaches' blocking skills.

Of course, if you do receive first, there are a few key objectives you can meet to make it pay off. If you Cas a Catcher, don't suffer more than one injury and score a TD in the first half without giving up more than one, you can call it a success. You can guarantee the third one by holding on for at least six turns (if you take down a Catcher) or eight turns (if you don't).

Oh, yeah. There's a Witch Elf to buy. Okay. Sure, save your 70k and skip the AC/CL; I was mostly pointing out that this is a game where the kickoff table really has a chance to shine, especially if the match turns against you. Still, if you get a Cas or MVP on a Journeyman, spring for him. Spamming Dodge or Side Step on the D-line is the key to building reserves in a league format.

[Smeborg]

El_Jairo - to complete my feedback: I will admit to a weakness for Assassins (I like them) and a weakness with them (I like to stab with them when I should do other things!). This led to poor results, and I find my results quite a bit better without them. This may simply reflect a weakness in my playing style. In summary, the Assassins are awesome against the right AV7 team, relatively weak against other teams (especially the AV9 teams), hence quite asymmetric. Their high cost is a worry on a team which is already one of the most expensive in the game. Finally, they take the number of DE positional players to 10, which is too many.

[Bert]

Ive concluded that you either choose the witches or the assassins. Whether its 2 of either or 1 of each. Anymore than that equals too much AV 7 and too much TV.

[El_Jairo]

This makes me believe that Assassins are rather a luxury that I could only afford with inducements.

If anyone has some more advice on how to tackle Pro Elves, I'm glad to hear it.

My priorities now are:
1. Get rid of the Catchers, especially the Strip Ball one
2. Get rid of Line Elves
3. Get rid of the Blitzers

My idea on how to do it is on offence to have a cage, maybe a loose cage to lure the strip ball catcher in. Knock her over and foul her to death.

It looks to me this next game is going be a hard one to win and it will be very determining whose armour will break first.

[mattgslater]

1: Get rid of the Catchers. It doesn't matter which one goes first, he needs them both.
2: Go after the softer players first.
3: Score TDs.

[El_Jairo]

Good point on the third point, almost forgot that part

Well the game is on tomorrow night so I will update you guys on how things turned out for the Karond Kar Slavers vs the Royal Harem.

[mattgslater]

Have you seen him play? Can you diagram his default D vs. midrange teams? How many TDs does he average? How often does he win by more than one point (the mark of a defensive elf team)? Is he a 2-turn turnover artist, or does his defense win on the one-square game? (Not that you don't have to do both, but which does he go for?)

[El_Jairo]

Well we got to play the game yesterday evening and things didn't go so good for me: we lost 1-3. I'll ask for some feedback later.

Our new team looks like this:

#1 Blitzer: Dodge, Side Step, 24SPP
#2 Blitzer: Tackle, 14SPP
#3 Blitzer: Dodge, 15SPP MNG
#4 Blitzer: +MA, 6SPP
#5 Witch Elf: Wrestle, 6SPP
#7 Runner: Leader, 16SPP NORMAL SKILL (thinking about dodge)
#11 Line Elf: 4SPP
#12 Line Elf: Guard, 13SPP
#16 Line Elf: Kick, 11SPP
Journey Elf 1SPP
Journey Elf 2

2x TRR
4 Fan Factor
1x Apothecary
110kGP Treasury

Team Value = 123 (before player purchase)

My next game is vs Chaos Dwarves. This makes me doubt about buying the second WE and choosing Dodge on my runner.

The CD has 6 blockers, two with guard, Two Bulls of which one with block, four Hobgobs: one SH, Block, one w/ dodge and due to league special rules Star Player Zzarg Madeye. They still need to play one game vs the Dwarf team in our league so maybe it would be useful to wait and see if the CD's come out unscathed.

Now about our game went:
We won the toss and choose to kick. I didn't remember the set-up Matt suggested but I put something similar to it: two journeys and Guarder on the line. And a kind of asymmetric Zigurat to cover the rest of the field. First turn: he decides to try and knock out the line. He needed a blitz to knock down our guard linemen, but with success: he got BH. This was a major set back. I did blitz his catcher who went down field. The other star catcher was marked with 3 guys to prevent him dodging simply away. His response was to try to dodge anyway, but falling on his face. Despite having about 5 guys taking care of two catchers I succeeded in pressuring the ball and a two bad block rolls made him TO. I got away with my Blodge Blitzer with the ball, not out of blitz range but nicely down field. He got blitzed and MNG (and to think they even don't have tackle). This meant he ended his turn with two players 1 square away from the side line. Sadly in my next turn I rolled a one too many and he could convert. In this process he succeeded two KO's: the kick and rookie line elf. Of those only my Kicker came back in turn 14...
The fact they where breaking my armour vastly more than me made it an uphill battle all the time.

It think this sums up why I couldn't turn the game. From turn 4 I was 7 vs 11 players and I only succeeded 1 KO in Turn 8 which returned during half time. I tried in the second half and came back to 1-2 but I tried too hard to put a TZ on the ball on a 4+ dodge w/ my Blodge SS blitzer. He failed and was stunned of course.

Wrestle on my WE also turned against me as she was holding the ball one square away from the line. I didn't dare to put her on the sideline without a TRR left for the pass action... I figured I didn't want to risk to loose her too. In hindsight that was maybe to conservative...

Looking back on the game I would like to receive first: three free blocks can make a difference and I would have get some easy SPP on a QP or so. Also I could tempt him to make more risky plays in order to get a blitz on my runner. Sure they won't give my a bashfest but they would make a lot of dodge rolls in order to prevent this.
Putting guard on the line is something I will stay away from, only if I am outnumbering. The value of putting guard where I want it in the next turn is even more important that clogging the centre.
This makes me believe I now need a Line elf more desperately than the second witch, so I can avoid putting a positional or guard line elf on the LoS.

What do you think?

[El_Jairo]

Sorry to bump this thread but I would appreciate your advice on what player next to hire on the team.

Since my next game is vs Chaos Dwarves and I have my Blodge Blitzer MNG, I'm considering hiring the Journeyman with 1 SPP in favour of a Witch Elf. On the other hand I would like to have the second Witch as soon as possible to be able to skill her.

What do you think?

[voyagers_uk]

I would actually advise not buying anyone until after this game. keep using journey elves until past the CD's then buy the witch. nothing hurts more than buying a fresh witch elf and coming up against a bash team loaded with tackle and seeing her die or break.

keep the rest of the team skilling up and play keep away with solid formations to protect the ball carrier from any bull centaurs / mino.

[Bert]

Give your runner NOS, should have been first skill IMO. This gives you so much security with the ball that you can stall and bash. Against that pro elf team if you had that and recieved different game. Have your runner in a loose cage with lots of dumpoff options. Teams cant cover them all, and if they do that means you get to block them. I played this team with 2 runners that would dumpoff to eachother all the way to the endzone. Doing that skills them up fast and you get blodge on them quickly. Lets the rest of your team focus on hitting. With one runner you can dumpoff to somebody then on your turn reset the situation and handoff the ball back to the runner after hes back in the open.