Frenzy & bonus square?

[GalakStarscraper]

Sprint is worded to the effect that it seems that there isn't anything optional about it.

So everytime you move a player with Sprint you must make 3 GFIs??? I think you need to re-think your statement.

Tom

[lunchmoney]

Sprint is worded to the effect that it seems that there isn't anything optional about it.

SKILLS
This section of the rules includes lots more skills for players to
use. The specific rules for each skill can be found on pages
63 to 68. Each entry also lists which category the skill belongs to
(i.e. Passing, General, Mutation, etc). A skill"s category affects
which players can access it, as described later on in the rules for
Blood Bowl leagues (see pages 26 and 27). Unless otherwise
stated in the skill description, the following rules apply to
all skills:
1. All bonuses/modifiers from skills can be combined.
2. Skills may be used an unlimited number of times per Action.
3. Some skills refer to pushing a player back in order to work.
These skills will work as long as you roll a result of !Pushed",
!Defender Stumbles", or !Defender Down" on the Block dice.
4. Skill use is not mandatory.
5. You can choose to use a skill that affects a dice roll after
rolling the dice (e.g., Diving Tackle does not need to be used
until after seeing the result of the Dodge roll).
6. Only Extraordinary skills work when a player is Prone or
Stunned.
7. A skill may only be taken once per player

My bold.

[Ullis]

I feel like a politician after all this selective quoting.

Smurf did have a point. Just looking at the way the Sprint skill is worded can very easily give the impression that you are indeed forced to do the 3rd GFI on a frenzied blitz. However, when taken together with the non-mandatory use rule for skills, it should be quite clear that you don't have to. This was all in my previous post already and I also thought I was clear enough on that I fully agree on the fact that you don't have to do the 3rd GFI if you don't want to. But many people don't know the rulebook too well and this is a somewhat gray area when you only look at the wordings of Frenzy and Sprint.

[Smurf]

Before you jump up and down other forumites it just that someone else has noticed the point I had made.

With Frenzy you must use GFIs on the Blitz when throwing a block, especially because the second block is not optional unless opponent is downed.

The logic extends that if you must throw the second block, then if it had sprint, you can GFI again to throw the 'must throw second block'.

However as we have all concluded the rules state you do not have to use X skill unless it is mandatory.

IMO there is the intent of Frenzy and the rules of whoa, calm down no need to go mental!

It comes down to the fine wire of 'You must throw the second block but you don't have to' (with regards Frenzy/Sprint combo).

[Darkson]

The logic extends that if you must throw the second block,

However BBis not logical (the whole intercept before actually throwing argument).

[Wylder]

Then you do not have to GFI at all as it is also optional?

No, you're wrong. Frenzy says: you have to throw a second block unless you can not GFI again. Ergo, if you CAN go for it, the wording of frenzy says that you HAVE to. Sure, GFI is normally optional, except in this case due to the wording of frenzy.

Sorry this is where rules lawyerism is about to contradict the meaning of the skill.

No, you just haven't read the rules properly.

It could be that frenzy negates the optional use of sprint becuase you have to GFI if you can!

No. You CAN'T GFI again, unless you CHOOSE to use sprint. The rulebook specifically says that ALL skills are optional unless the skill states otherwise. Neither frenzy or sprint say anything about mandatory sprint use.

They should have thought about this in CRP as it was brought up in 5th and not post script it.

The wording was clear in 5th, as it is clear now. Just because you don't understand it as it's written doesn't mean the rulebook has a problem.

Frenzy clearly states that you must if you can. Thus removing the option of not using a skill.

No. Sprint remains optional, and unless you choose to use sprint, you CAN'T GFI. Frenzy does not say anywhere that it forces the use of sprint.

[Dzerards]

Dude, calm down. It's not like he insulted you mother or anything. The question was asked whether the compulsive nature of Frenzy overruled your choice in whether or not you had to use Sprint and it is has been clarified. Don't be going in over the top. It's not necessary.

[Wylder]

*shrug* he was wrong, got told he's wrong (with evidence) and continued arguing.

I think that's the perfect time to ram it down his throat.

This is an old issue that's been debated many times, always to the same logical conclusion.

[B SIDE]

Can a player with sprint GFI again (after 2 GFI's)? The answer is unquestionably yes.

You can use sprint. Therefore you can GFI again. And if you can GFI again, you must GFI again (according to the description of frenzy), therefore you must use sprint.

And while skill use is generally optional by rule, if that rule is contradicted by a skill description, it is the skill description that has precedence. Although there is no other case I am aware of where the use of one skill suggests the required use of a different skill, that could easily be the interpretation in this case.

Again, I think the intention of the rules are not unclear, but the wording could be better.

[Digger Goreman]

OBTUSIDITY

[B SIDE]

Very constructive.


What I'm trying to say is that Tom, the authority most widely recognized by our community, must be right regarding the intention of the wording; you don't have to use sprint. But if we look at the text outside of the context of such authority and intention, there is a perfectly logical argument for the opposition.

I'm glad it's been cleared up here. I would still recommend a minor alteration of the text to avoid further confusion, were the community still capable of making such adjustments.

[Greyhound]

what re-version are you talking about, this is the final book, and Tom cannot post" you're right, let me change the FAQ we will publish this in next month re-release!"
This discussion is pointless! You have your info, we can all move on.

[Pagan]

Can a player with Sprint GFI again (after 2 GFI's)? The answer is unquestionably yes.

A player with the Sprint skill can not GFI it three times. They are limited to 2 GFI just like everyone else. Until they use the Sprint skill they must stop moving.

[Smurf]

*shrug* he was wrong, got told he's wrong (with evidence) and continued arguing.

I think that's the perfect time to ram it down his throat.

This is an old issue that's been debated many times, always to the same logical conclusion.

Well if you actually read the thread you would have see I have accepted a decision.

Some else came along, thought something and then a pair of forumites began jumping up and down.

So I don't need it rammed down my throat and some times forumites need to look at how they post... ie not like this one!

[Corvidius]

I can see the arguments for the compulsive 3rd GFI and understand where the problem arises. It's the perception that something saying MUST overrules something saying MAY. It is an issue that won't come up often but it is one that will come up. As a noob to these forums (if not the game, 11 Years and counting) it was useful for me to see both sides of the debate without having to mine the depths of a well used, long running forum. Thanks all for providing the helpful opposing views, this will help me debate what I believe to be the right ruling in future.