Side Step + Shadowing and Frenzy

[garion]

If a frenzy player blitzes a player with side step and shadowing and pushes them back, then the sidestep player uses SS to stand by the frenzy players side, the frenzy player then follows up automatically to make the 2nd block - can the SS Shadowing player then use shadowing to follow the payer up before he throws his second block? Essentially just swapping places with him.

[Ulthuan_Express]

'The player may use this skill when a player performing an Action on the opposing team moves out of any of his tackle zones for any reason'

The Frenzier has not moved out of the SS/Shadowing player's TZ. Quite the opposite, in fact, thanks to the push, so Shadowing doesn't come into play.

[garion]

Has he not moved out of one of his tackle zones and into another. Because if you use shadowing normally and a player dodges from one of your tackle zones into another one then you are able to use shadowing are you not?

[DoubleSkulls]

Yes

[garion]

Cool, thanks I thought so, that is pretty handy for getting out of a tight squeeze, shame it will not be usefull more often.

[Wanchor]

'The player may use this skill when a player performing an Action on the opposing team moves out of any of his tackle zones for any reason'

The Frenzier has not moved out of the SS/Shadowing player's TZ. Quite the opposite, in fact, thanks to the push, so Shadowing doesn't come into play.

If the Side-stepping player should move to a space adjacent to the blocker, how is his follow-up move not moving from a tackle zone?

[Afroman]

The awy I have understood it is as follows:

When follow up a push result of any kind, it all happens simultaneously. That's why you have to decide the follow up BEFORE any potential armor roll.
Since it happens at the same time the frenzing player will stay in the sam TZ all along.

And, seeing at it logically, it should be impossible to shadow the very same guy that is following you.

So a clear no in my book

[Darkson]

I agree with Afroman. I thought I'd seen Galak answer this very question before here, and answer no.

[Wanchor]

And, seeing at it logically, it should be impossible to shadow the very same guy that is following you.

Granted, but that's still an assumption with no basis in the rules. It could be argued, fluff-wise, that a Shadowing, Side-Step player was extra sneaky and capable of such ridiculousness. But then, the same situation would apply with Grab instead of Side-Step...

I suppose it just needs a small addendum along the lines of, "This skill cannot be used to Shadow a player following up on a Block or Blitz against the player with Shadowing."

[GalakStarscraper]

I agree with Afroman. I thought I'd seen Galak answer this very question before here, and answer no.

I don't think you have ... I agree with Ian.

Frenzy player blocks Side Step/Shadow
Side Step used to move to adjacent square to Frenzy
Frenzy follows
This triggers Shadowing as the Frenzy player has left one of the Shadowing players tackle zones to move to another square
Shadowing allows the Side Step player to move into the square just left by the Frenzy player

Yup ... that is how that would work.

Tom

[garion]

Cool I hope i can use that to get out of a really tight squeeze some time. It is very sneaky

[Ulthuan_Express]

Oh, wow, I stand corrected, then. That still sounds completely broke, though.

[Dzerards]

With Frenzy, if it works on both blocks then both pieces will end up where they started!

I don't see how it's broken. Plus you don't even need the guy doing the blocking to have Frenzy, just that they follow up. Still not seeing any great uses for it though. The swapping places bit I mean, Shadowing and Side-Step is awesome for marking.

[Urb]

broken implies it vastly affects the design mechanics of the game. Game altering. This however has little impact. Only a few teams have frenzy and only a few players per teams. Not a big deal whatsoever. Sidestep and shadowing on a tree is useless, Claws, RSC on even a fling scary.

[DoubleSkulls]

I agree with Afroman. I thought I'd seen Galak answer this very question before here, and answer no.

Are you thinking about shadowing someone who has been pushed back? That would be a no since you can only shadow the active player.