Help! I'm playing terribly...

[phil]

what i meant was the actual mechanics and tactics of playing the game itself, as opposed to the fluff, mini collecting, etc which is my attraction to the hobby... but your appraisal applies equally...

something you could consider is trying to get ahold of some game files from matches between some of the especially good players on the board and watching how they handle their players in response to various situations... a little time consuming, but it could be revealing.. i know every time i play a game against a really good coach, i manage to come away with a little something extra for my game...

though you could just take the easy way and ask yourself, "what would phil do in this situation" and promptly not do that at all

[Marcus]

One question does spring to mind - how on earth are you supposed to achieve all this when you only have four minutes to play your turn in? (Plus two of the guys in my league think it is boring to use four minutes and would rather use two or three minutes!)

As has been said: Think about what to do in your opponent's turn. I'm always watching as s/he moves trying to figure out where I'm going to get in to blitz the ball carrier. Planning that ahead means you can swing straight into your turn with a plan in hand. It's disheartening to the opposition as well.

Incidentally, the better the coach is, the more time I spend mentally saying "damn, shut down that route... damn! and another one. DAMN!..." as the turn goes on.

Learning some simple ways to attack basic plays is helpful when you have no time and no direct way of sacking the ball carrier. It's one example of where set plays are actually useful. Even then, don't expect them to be foolproof against good coaches.

Other than that. Play, observe, practice.

[Skummy]

martynq: hope this makes sense: I enjoy the game when I play well, whether I win or lose, but end up feeling frustrated when I feel I play badly, equally whether I win or lose.

This is surely the best sign that you will become a very good coach. I've yet to see anyone play a perfect game, and the most exciting ones are the games in which players make few mistakes and challenge each other. Playing poorly and getting a win can be worse than playing well and losing. I think you're on the right track, and working to better your player placent is a very reachable goal.

[martynq]

I've managed to at least leave it well over an hour before replying - I'm trying to show some sort of self-control and not annoy you all!

something you could consider is trying to get ahold of some game files from matches between some of the especially good players on the board and watching how they handle their players in response to various situations.

Galak used to put the game files for the very early rounds of the MBBL2 on his webpage. I think the whole thing has just become too time consuming since then, but at the time I didn't know who the really good coaches were. Now it is a different matter... but I'm not sure quite what I would get out of it. I'm still in the position of knowing that I'm doing stuff wrong without knowing exactly what.

i know every time i play a game against a really good coach, i manage to come away with a little something extra for my game...

This is the trouble - I don't always come away with something extra. I often come away thinking "Well he was much better than me..." without really knowing why. It just often feels like my opponent has more players than me, that they have more MA/ST/AV than mine, and that they have more skills than mine, even when this is clearly not true.

though you could just take the easy way and ask yourself, "what would phil do in this situation" and promptly not do that at all

Oh I can simulate something far more similar - I just think what I would do... not putting prone stunned players at the start of my turn is one of my favourites!

Learning some simple ways to attack basic plays is helpful when you have no time...

Hmmm... perhaps learning what basic plays there are might be a better first start. I've heard of the cage. About the only other thing I've seen is a desperate attempt to run as many receivers through as possible/appropriate and then pass to them next turn. What else is there?

Martyn

[Grumbledook]

Cage and passing is about the basic plays. If you have lost to plays you should see how they worked. What it was that happened and what you can do to prevent it.

Against cages, its best to stop them forming, kicking deep and running players round.

Against passing, put lots of tz on recievers, blitz down their best reciever and make them go to their second strings. Move some players to where the thrower is likely to run to and pass from.

Generally make them change what they were planning to do. Usually their plans was the easiest option, so the more changes they make, the more likely a mistake.

Of course they will still make a lot of these plays, I certainly try and make sure I have another option should my first choice get thwarted. In the same vein you will also want to plan ahead should you get the ball or they make a mistake. Its no good them getting a turnover if you can't take advantage of it.

Basically practice practice practice, also watching other people play can help. I know javabowl has a spectate option to watch other people play and I often watch games while i am painting or something.

[phil]

a couple of years ago i watched a lot of games played using avi stetto's client... the games were real-time so you could really follow the flow well.. if javabowl has a similar guesting featuer, i'd highly recommend it as a learning tool...

[Zombie]

Ah. well, See here is a difficult issue.
I know there are many ways to set up your roster, and I see you went for more rerolls, and lots of line elves. i wouldn't do that.

I always figure it's better to start heavy on rerolls, and go smooth on blitzers, whatever race i play (except orcs i guess where you can have both). Especially with elves, where it's easy to get 2 or 3 line-elves a skill by the end of game 2 so you have a couple of players with block. The rerolls cost double afterwards, and you never have enough, so i figure it's better to get them while they're cheap.

[Grumbledook]

Yer i agree with zombie on this one ;]

[phil]

i dunno, i used to be an "all linemen and high rerolls" elf apologist... but one day not long ago i realized that the rerolls cost pretty much the same as the position players, occasionally less... and you can get a better start out of a more well-rounded team...

[roysorlie]

i dunno, i used to be an "all linemen and high rerolls" elf apologist... but one day not long ago i realized that the rerolls cost pretty much the same as the position players, occasionally less... and you can get a better start out of a more well-rounded team...

I agree with you.

Sacrifice one rerolland a FF, and you can upgrade two lineelfs to Blitzers.
That saves you alot of rerolling failed block resuls. Likely,you will use the blitzers to score with, so they increase quickly aswell, giving you maybe dodge and catch. So you save rerolls on that.

They have more move, so you save rerolls on GFI's.

EVERYBODY knows, when playing elves, 1/6 chances happen about half the time. I'd rather not waste my rerolls on failed blitz moves and catches.

I'd rather have a team that succeds due to skill rather than rerolls.

But in the end, I suppose it's a question of preferance.
What do you pop to drop, so to speak.

[Dangerous Dave]

Martyn said

I really enjoyed the match against Dave which ended in a 2-2 draw... I think I also would have enjoyed it if I had failed to equalize at the end

Damn - you're not supposed to have fun!

Martyn then said

I didn't enjoy my MBBL match against Robert Arnholm's skaven, since at no point did I really feel I had a clue what I could do to come close to him

I agree - it is much harder to play against a developed than a rookie team. When you have skills that solidify your position its so much harder.


As to taking out the Minotaur - there isn't much you can do when he has Block and Pro. I tried with 2 Mummies and failed most of the time. The best advice is to ensure that the Mino can only blitz. Try and keep your players far enough away from him so that he cannot then run off to safety - or at least needs to dodge after the block - remember the mino must follow up so try to force him into a TZ (this will leave him unprotected). Then try and hit him with all you have - got a dauntless player? use him. If not try and get at least a one dice block and hit him with a player with Block. Reroll if you fail. Then foul him. AV 8 is their main weakness aside from being Wild of course.


Dave

[Grumbledook]

Ok then, if you start with more linos over position players, the linos are more likely to be getting spp. Personally my linos have a harder time getting skills.

A double priced reroll costs more than any player (usually). Its cheaper to get players than new rerolls, even more so if you can take a higher ff by taking linos.

Also its cheaper to replace a lino than a position player, I don't know any teams that don't suffer deaths and injuries early on.

The only reason I would say take position players instead of more rr ff, is if you can't win games with more linos. I don't have a problem with fewer position players when playing other rookie teams.

So at the end of the day its personal preference.

[roysorlie]

Personally my linos have a harder time getting skills.

In my league, there is a Mino with Block, Piling and Razor Sharp Claws.
He has no problems gaining SSP.

On the other hand, there is a 90.000 GP Warrant on his head. So the coach that has him, is too afraid to use him.

[Grumbledook]

i said linos not minos :p

[roysorlie]

i said linos not minos :p

My bad, elf linos usually manage well, getting comps and such.

Of course, under the EXP system, everybody would have an easy time of it.