6+4 on a BC in a short format

[mattgslater]

My developmental league CD team may not get much play; they're allowed 8 games over the rest of the year. In January, there's a chance I'll pick CDs up as my primary team, if they're doing very well. I plan on playing 4 games or so with them quickly, then busting them out when somebody's looking for a challenge.

I played their first game last night against an up-and-comer building his Skaven for the coming season. I won a textbook 2-1 grind, with both TDs on the BC. That was my only skill (tons of knockouts and the boot was brutal, but only 2 Cas for SPP), and he got a 6+4. Rolling a 10 with a BC has me salivating over +MA. Certainly, when Malmir got the +MA on What If You Miss, he took it and didn't look back. But while this guy will probably improve again, there's a good chance that the next 10SPP represent half his career, and means he may well never get Break Tackle... unless I run CDs in January.

Block or MA? Not entertaining other suggestions. I'll probably play this team again some night this coming week, so I have a couple days, maybe, to decide.

[juck101]

hmmmm. Hard one actually.

If you hit out a lot with the bc then I would advise block as its a clear choice for a blitzing st4 player. I guess if you really utilise the full options and don't often just chuck 2d blocks first then I would be tempted with the ma. Its a short format but ma+1 and then block does not sound so appealing compared to block and BT as a 2 skill combo.

Ok thinking my post out loud I would go block first as +1ma and just block sounds like you cant use the ma without break tackle anyway many turns. Hes not exactly slow so the dull block, BT would be better for me personally over 10 games or so. Ma +1 does not win me over turn by turn compared to block on a key player. Sorry I hate dull picks but block is just too good as a skill

[mattgslater]

Obviously, the Dwarfs did shoulder the burden of blocking against the rats; by my offhand estimation, I'd guess the BC made about 4 or 5 blocks, mostly when he could get 3d. I hedged with him mostly in the first quarter, and it was only when the bodies started mounting that I started throwing hits with him. Obviously, when I'm not up against a low-AV team I may need the BC to make some 2d hits. I've played CDs a few times, and I've learned that while BCs don't block a lot, usually when they do it's very important.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Yeah Block by a mile. MA is more TV and less useful.
MA would only beat a normal skill after maybe the 4th or 5th skill.
So many good skills for BCs I wouldn't waste an early one on MA.

[mattgslater]

Yeah, I kind of lean toward Block at this point. If I'd rolled an 11 or 12 I'd take the stat and not look back. But MA is just good on the piece, which is why I'm on the fence. If I take the team on as my primary team next year, and get him to 31 SPP, I'll be glad I did it. It's just that I'm not at all convinced I'll do that, and right now Block is better. (He's already burned a TRR on a T11 3d block that would have been a knockdown if he'd had Block; I didn't really pay anything for it, as the RR got a pow and I didn't suffer a turnover in the second half, nor did I defer any actions for want of TRR.)

[Urb]

I think the only real descision is how many games you plan to play with this team. 8 games is plenty to warrent MA. There are dimishing returns with block where MA becomes more valuable as you play more games.

It's hard to pass on Block but I think you take MA and use this guy as your primary scorer for the next 2 or 3 games until he skills again.

Seems like a tough descision but for me MA all the way.

[dines]

I'd go for block, BC's need block and break tackle asap. Everything else is just a bonus (except ST or AG)

[juck101]

I'd go for block, BC's need block and break tackle asap. Everything else is just a bonus...

This is very well put. Yes I think with these two skills the player is 'complete' and I would not go out of my way to skill them further. This means its a good choice to keep the simple picks and considering the format then the simple pick is great.

[Smeborg]

Not the easiest of choices (because of the short format), but I would take +MA, which is very good on a BC. 10 squares of reliable movement.

Give him the ball and skill him up quickly. Second skill should be Break Tackle, not Block. He then becomes a well-nigh unstoppable scorer in a short format (provided he picks up the ball, of course). He also poses all kinds of threats as a Blitzer and cage-breaker.

All the best.

[nazgob]

I would like to seecond smeborg's advice. With str4, block is not essential. Just think of all those nurgle warriors and black orcs that skill up with mighty blow firat for spp generqation.

An ma7 break tackle bull is a fantastic peice with the potential for being even better.

[JaM]

I'd go with boring old block. Makes him a better blitzer, and, unless in a cage, I'd be happy to blitz your str 4 no block bull.
Of course, he can move 10 + 3, but even then, he's not untouchable.

Want to be predictable ? Take block.
Want to have an ace up your sleeve ? Take the movement.
Want to go crazy ? Take pass block

[nazgob]

Did I ever tell you about the time my bull centaur intercepted a pass to win a gqame for me?

Gather round my son, and I will tell you a tale.

[mattgslater]

He then becomes a well-nigh unstoppable scorer in a short format (provided he picks up the ball, of course). He also poses all kinds of threats as a Blitzer and cage-breaker.

This to me is not a very strong argument by itself, even though I can definitely see the upside.

* I do think the breakaway management potential of a MA7/BT Bull is better than that of one with BT alone, but I don't think it's better than that of one with Block, even against a Block breakaway (though it's close in that case). That is, GFIs with a BC aren't all that risky, and proper positioning makes BT the important part of the equation, rather than the added move.

* I see the added value as a blitzer with +MA; definitely, this could change my opponent's strategy more than Block can.

* Cagebreaking isn't a primary activity for my Chaos Dwarfs. Or, rather, there are two ways to crack the nut, you know? If I want to break cages better, I can try to get Guard on Dwarfs and Wrestle on a Hob, rather than MA7/BT on a Bull. It's one thing if you're elves, but with CDs you're supposed to be winning most of your pitched battles. What I can't afford is to get my mobile players too far out of the formations.

* Once I get a kicker, the MA will have the potential to be a big deal. Once I've got Block and BT it'll be truly excellent. I'm a little afraid of trying to get an AG2 player to 31 SPP without Block, even if he's very fast and gets a +2 on one dodge per turn. This is the root of my hesitation; +MA without BT is not all that valuable, but with Block and BT, it looks like a big difference-maker.

* I'm not a big fan of dedicated scorers, especially AG2 ones. With a TRR factored in, AG2 has more than double the odds of a failed pickup. Failed pickups in the backfield can be a total disaster when you are fielding a bunch of slow guys.

So, like I said, I'm on the fence and leaning toward Block. If I had to decide right now, that's where I'd go. But let's see if we can learn from this exercise, and if the answer isn't just the tried-and-true.

I'll take another look at the first 8 games of What If You Miss and return with a report. Definitely, Malmir made it work, but I don't have any stats, and besides, he's one of the best coaches on FUMBBL, so the fact that he succeeded with it isn't evidence that it's optimal. That's the only example I know of. Anyone got another?

[nazgob]

I had a ma7 bull who was great. I'll see if I can link you to some of his games on fumbbl.

[mattgslater]

I had a ma7 bull who was great. I'll see if I can link you to some of his games on fumbbl.

That would be awesome.