High Elf League Team Skills

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Some mates have started up a local TT league so I thought I would take High Elves for a change of pace from all the bashy teams I play on FUMBBL.
It's going quite well so far, beat Nurgle 2-1 first match and Dark Elves 4-0 2nd match.
I've got a blitzer with dodge, a blitzer with mb, a rookie catcher and a lino with block.
My initial plan is to of course throw a completion with anyone who needs one for a skill, but I have some questions about skills and High Elfs in general.
Should I strive for team wide wrestle/block or focus on blodging catchers up asap?
32 spps is blodge on 2 catchers or block/wrestle on 5 linos, but I guess it's easier to get the tds with catchers.
Should I just go for the win every game and probably naturally end up scoring more with the blodging blitzer and the catcher(s)?
I don't want any bloat so I am sticking to 11 men 3 rr and an apo for a while.
Should I hold off on buying a second catcher till the first one skills block or blodge?
Thanks for your time.

[Urb]

IMO the catchers are what HE are all about so you want to stock up on them asap.

Always environment influencing but I would focus on making a ball removal blitzer (tackle/stripball/leap) and a retrieving thrower. I don't think the MB is neccesary at all with HE.

[mattgslater]

I like skilling High Elf Linos. They're 70k, so a 40k TV investment to reduce the opponent's knockdown odds by 45-74% is definitely worth it. Then they have active uses, which are a) almost skill-quality by themselves, and b) gravy. Not only that, but there's nothing wrong with SS and Fend. Keeping your guys on their feet and in position keeps them on the pitch. When your elves go numbers-up, you usually win.

Maximum skill quality, man. Dodge for everybody, stopping only for critical toolbox skills, like Kick. You can take Wrestle if you know you're going down Dwarf Alley within your next few games; otherwise, trust in Dodge and you will be rewarded. You can stop to spam Side Step, but only if you get both Blitzers and a Lino at once; in your case, you shouldn't. I understand MB as a double on a Blitzer; worked very well for me last year, getting me 3 Cas in 7 games (off MB alone).

Catchers hog SPP, but they don't really need skills so badly. I mean, they get good skill economy, but so does your whole team. The worse their supporting cast, and the more dependent you are upon them, the more they get hurt. Strangely, having lots of Dodge on your Linemen is like having an extra skill on your Catcher, diverting Tacklers and making it more likely you'll have the TZ/assist/pulloff you need when/where you need it. Also, the more Catchers you have, the lower your overall AV. I like to run 3 Catchers, 1 Thrower, 2 Blitzers and 7 Linemen. One lino is my kicker, one gets Guard, +AV, or +ST, and the rest are the LOS rotation.

Here's what I've learned: it's tempo-driven, both in terms of games and the season.

Games: If you receive first and take control, you have to do the math. With the players on the field and in reserves and half the KO'ed players, and with half your KOs back, is your opponent likely to score? If the answer is no, hit that endzone! If you can stall at all, you can probably engineer a score with whoever needs the SPP when the time is right. If you're kicking and get the ball back, or if you receive with a lead, score with whoever can. You can game for quick defensive scores with linemen. They're AG4. Still, your Catchers will race ahead, because sometimes you just got it, you know?

Seasons: Over time, your Catchers will become awesome, dominant, cool, killer... dead! Sorry, man, but they have huge targets on their backs and roll a lot of dice. You get great value for their skills and you should build build build them as much as you need to, but enjoy them while you got 'em, don't put all your eggs in one basket, and remember a 6SPP Catcher is still one bad mofo.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Well it's a 10 man open league play each other once each season, finishing with a ko cup.
The other teams are Skaven, WE, DE, Norse, Necro, Human, Chaos, Orc, Nurgle.
So really only 3 bashy teams making mb a more solid choice I thought and wrestle maybe on only a couple of guys. Ive scored a couple of defensive TDs with linos already they are indeed great players, so not that fussed about a 2nd catcher just yet.
I am very aware of the fact that the Catchers are only av7 so I thought if I just use 2 they would be relatively easy to protect yet also able to threaten.
I always choose to kick if I win the toss so I doubt I will have to recieve first half much.
I love this asymetrical setup, scored 3 tds from it vs the DE and nearly 3 1st half tds vs the Nurgle(failed a 73% chance on T8)

[Urb]

MB is a fine skill but a first skill choice for a elf blitzer? Gaurd would've been a more common choice but if MB wins you games all good.

[dines]

Didn't your lowest lino get crowdpushed by a witch? Thats at least what I would aim for with darkies against that setup.

Regarding development, i've got good experience with skilling up linos on (dark) elf teams and a mix of block, dodge and wrestle is good, ofcourse after kick. Skills on the linos are really worth it TV wise. AV8 elves are quickly going to high TV, but don't think they are really getting bloated. In a league setting inducements are rarely as good as the TV diff, so its not as critical as in in any case.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

dines- the DE did not have a witch elf, if they had I wouldn't have let him surf a guy 1st turn.

A lot of love for kick on these forums, here are 4 teams from fumbbl with amazing coaches and amazing records:
PeteW - Ranked DE 17-1-1
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=647742
PurpleChest - Blackbox HE 14-3-1
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=646126
Tarabaralla - Blackbox HE 14-5-1
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=642331
Tarabaralla - Blackbox Elf 16-1-0 !
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team ... _id=648392

Not one of them has taken kick ever !?
They all follow the FUMBBL theme of a few stars backed up by lesser lights, although of course after so many games a lot of these lesser lights are blodgers.
I think the stars strategy is perfect for TV matched play as they are easier to protect and more effective than random skilled guys.
However with TV management not being as important in TT (providing you don't give away a wiz) I wondered if more skills on linos was a better strategy?
All of them have maxed out at 12 players and 3 RR except PeteW at 4RR who has the highest TV and the riskiest playstyle.

Urb - If I had an Elf Blitzer I would have given him Guard to go with SS and Dodge at 16spps, but with High Elfs not starting with SS I thought MB Tackle would be a better combo given the composition of the league.
I only like to think to 16 spps with TT development, so this factors into my skill choices.
A 3rd skill is a bonus that he may never get to.

[garion]

Kick is definately an amazing skill to have.
But it really depends on which teams are in your league. If there are a lot of elves or fast teams then there is really very little point in it. If it is a bash heavy league with lots of dwarves orcs and chaos dwarves then it is a lot more valuable.

However it only really becomes great once your catchers are skilled up

Catchers should go like this imo -

blodge, side step on one
wrestle dodge strip ball on one
blodge, frenzy on one

after you have got those skills, if you are lucky to get more, give the first one diving tackle or shadowing the second one leap and the third side step. Also Surehands is usually nice on one player so you can pick the ball up in multiple tackle zones and run away.

But once you have skills on those players then kick makes a big difference because htos guys are so fast you can usually stop a cage forming altogether and nick the ball really quickly.

The frenzy one is best used as a back field sweeper to pick up anyplayers that might break through your ranks, leap is also a good skill choice for him for some surfing fun.

The rest of your team is pretty obvious, just skill them up in the usual way, blodge or wrestle dodge guard on double. Blitzers give them sidestep and tackle asap. then you should be good to go.

They are now one of my favourite teams because they are probably the most versatile team in the game. They can cage the ball and walk up the pitch for a typical elf stall. They are also amazing at two turn touch downs. Catchers help all your players skill up by giving them easy targets to throw to, so spp farm when everyou get the chance.

On defence Av8 allows you to man mark a lot more than the likes of wood elves and pro elves which can help disrupt cages very effectively. They are very good at quick break aways and with good positioning you can win blocking wars with bashy teams thanks to their high agility and av.

[soranos]

From your original post it seems you still plan too much in a Blackbox way. There are no C-Pomb teams or all-bldge elfs waiting after 4-5 games. The wizard is great, but in general inducements make games closer but do not make up for the difference in team strength. Therefore I do not see the point in sticking to a 11 player roster for too long. Yes, elfs can also play undermanned, but that does not mean that you would want to, if you can avoid it.

In a structured leagues your competition should improve steadily and I would not want to bank on inducements and loners (which you will get, if you stick to 11-12 players with elfs). In such a format you normally know your next opponent and can arrange your TV so that you grow in team size at the right pace wothout giving up wizzards and such.

HE can go the balanced or the 2-3 star-players route, both has its pros and cons. In one-off games, the star approach might be a little stronger, but it is also riskier. Again this comes down to a difference to an open league format. If you lose your star there you get knocked down and play weaker competition and can build up while playing even games: that does not happen in a league if you lose your star player. Therefore the star player-approach would likely have a worse record in a structured league than an open format like fumbbl (imo). On the other hand teams with the best players often win leagues, as young teams often can not cope with these kind of players yet. It is a kind of aim-for-the-fences kind of strategy, I would assume.

Kick is a very nice skill, but few people say it is an absulte must or one of the best skills. It can definately have a big effect on games. But it depends on the opponent, your team and the kick-off table. I doubt all the teams you listed would perform significantly different if you changed a wrestle/dodge/block on one of the linos for 1xkick. You play bashers on fumbbl so you should know what it could do: sometimes it ends up being worthless, at other times it can alter the way you would ideally play your drive.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Thanks for the input fellas.
I played a couple more games yesterday, beat Skaven 1-0 and Norse 5-0 !
MB blitzer now has tackle so should be able to handle the wood elves etc now.
2 linos have block and 2 have wrestle.
I have enough money for a catcher but not sure whether to buy it yet because of my other catcher.
A block catcher rolled 5,5 so basically my choices are Dodge or MA.
Blodge means he will be better than a ma9 block catcher and I can feed TDs to the rookie catcher.
MA9 will be awesome when he gets to 31 for blodge but not so good until then and he would probably spp hog for a while, so I would put off buying the 2nd catcher.
Maybe the MA is putting too many eggs in one basket and I should just blodge him up and concentrate on skilling the other catcher?

[narg]

I'm not that experienced with elves but here are a few comments:
- I like to alternate between block, dodge and wrestle as a first skill on linemen. I think that it's more efficient than all block or all dodge, the reasoning being that if two of your linemen are marked, you can dodge with the one who has dodge to give an assist to the one with block and throw a 2d block, and fighting back is always good; even with pro-elves sometimes I manage to beat the crap out of the other team, and for that you need luck obviously but you also need to at least try to throw a few blocks, there's no way you'll inflict any casualty if you're always dodging away.
- I think that it's important to start with two catchers because one is too easy to neutralize, but then I want them both to have two skills (blodge) before buying a third or fourth one - as they're expensive players it's best to focus SPPs on one at a time; having three or four unskilled catchers is I think a recipe for disaster as they'll too fragile and harder to protect.
- I'm not too convinced by kick. I only had a kicker for a few games before he died but it never impacted on the game. Maybe it's just bad luck or me not knowing how to maximize the skill though.

[DoubleSkulls]

A block catcher rolled 5,5 so basically my choices are Dodge or MA.

I'm a little surprised you don't see the doubles as a contender - Guard or Nerves of Steel useful choices that give something different.

I really like guard on my catchers, because being able to get to assist in the backfield is very valuable for generating turnovers.

NoS is a bit like an overpriced Pro elf catcher, but given the Safe Throw you've already got passing in traffic shouldn't be a big concern.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

A few people on FUMBBL said that Guard would get him killed with him not having Dodge and I agreed, If he had already had Dodge or Blodge I probably would have gone with Guard.
Anyway I took Dodge on him and bought a 2nd catcher who has got Dodge and AG5 ! after two crazy games, 1-0 vs Necro where he was left with 3 men on the pitch and 4-0 vs Orcs.
MB Blitzer has got 7 cas in 4 games so I think it was a good choice.

[juck101]

A few people on FUMBBL said that Guard would get him killed with him not having Dodge

I imagine getting killed would be a result of it being a very usefull skill and make him a target. Im kinda in agreement it might lead to his death but I would not turn it down as you cant get dodge first and have much chance of seeing a double.

But no worry I understand.

Lots of blodge is good. Lots of blodge guard is just to die for

[narg]

A few people on FUMBBL said that Guard would get him killed with him not having Dodge

I imagine getting killed would be a result of it being a very usefull skill and make him a target. Im kinda in agreement it might lead to his death but I would not turn it down as you cant get dodge first and have much chance of seeing a double.

But no worry I understand.

Lots of blodge is good. Lots of blodge guard is just to die for

Well it's not just that, the guard player tends to be sent to contact to help you score or to get to the ball carrier, and the opponent can then hit him without blitzing. When I receive I also like to put a guard player on the LOS in the middle so that two players can get a guard assist and throw a 2D block, but if you have a turnover before you have the time to make him dodge away he ends up right in front of a troll or a black orc, and if he doesn't have blodge that's not good for his survival. So ideally you want to get guard after blodge but you can't really choose when you roll a double...