Troll(Orx) with Block and 5+5 What now?

[mattgslater]

as temptetd as i was i took Guard. thought it will be lightyears to thne next level...i thought wrong.

Anyways, next time it will be Frenzy

Actually, at this point, with Block, Guard and Pro, I'd take +AV if you get another double-5. AV10 has no active use, so it's not a good early up, but once you've already got your good stuff it's like a 4+ save against injury rolls. ST5/AV10/Block/Regenerate is pretty much automatically the toughest mofo on the pitch, and he'd be a 220k TV investment, definitely worth keeping in play. If he didn't have Guard, Frenzy would be great, or if he rolls a double 1-4. But on a double 5 or 6, it would be a stat for me.

Similarly, he's at a level where Dodge is tempting. 51 SPP means he'll go up again, and Dodge + either Break Tackle or Stand Firm would be simply hideous on this player. Dodge is great against big guys, because it stops 45% of 2d blocks against him, assuming you don't let him get mobbed and hit 2d by a Wrestler or Tackler. Similarly, his Block, Guard and Pro will let him smash the same big guys back with frightening efficiency.

On a normal roll, choice of SF, BT and Grab. SF and BT are both good if you want to keep your options open on doubles rolls. If you give him Grab (the immediate power choice against bash teams, as it forces them into deep defense and guarantees you the ability to cage as you will), you have fewer good options on doubles (Side Step? SS+Grab is hilarious) but are ready to take a normal skill combo with Stand Firm at 76.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Thick skull better than av probably

[mattgslater]

Thick Skull over AV10? Not unless your default thinking is that the other guy is more than 50/50 to have Claw. In an environment with Claw/MB all over the place Thick Skull is barely worth considering, only because it's one of the few defensive skills that can't really be negated. Otherwise, it's only worthwhile if it's a free or nearly-free profile skill, like on Skels, Dwarfs and Golems. Thick Skull turns 5/9 (slightly less with MB) of KOs into stuns, and does nothing else. Except against Claw, AV10 turns half of KOs into failed breaks, along with half of stuns and half of all Cas. It's only 40% against MB, but in that case it turns 20% of Cas and 9% (net) of KOs into stuns. Against POMB (no Claw) used on AV, the AV9-AV10 gap is 135 vs. 45 out of 324, meaning that +AV stops 2/3 of all breaks. So +AV vs. POMB actually stops more KOs than Thick Skull does, in addition to turning them into prone (rather than stunned) results, and also in addition to stopping most Cas and stun results.

If you are playing in a format where you will run into Claw almost every game, maybe Thick Skull, or rather maybe avoid +AV. Otherwise, avoid Thick Skull like the plague, and +AV is quite solid.

[DoubleSkulls]

That said Dodge is probably better than +Av on a 5,5. Very few S4/S5 players are likely to have Tackle. Although that doesn't quite make the 2 dice knockdown the fact you aren't even getting knocked down improves his effectiveness a lot. The combo with Guard and eventually Stand Firm is excellent too Also gives nice options with break tackle

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Thick Skull makes your guy not worth fouling. Claw is on 8/21 non joke teams. I wouldn't take either over a double but I think TS is better than AV.

[mattgslater]

Thick Skull makes your guy not worth fouling. Claw is on 8/21 non joke teams.

1) Depends on what you mean by "worth". 220k ST5 player, meet 60k Zombie DP.
2) The math isn't really so sure. Your opponent is shooting for a knockout or better, but you're hoping not to die, while a foul Cas vs. Regen is about like a KO for the other guy.
3) Do you know how hard it is to get an even-odds foul on AV10/Regen? If you don't leave your Troll in the open, it's pretty much impossible.
4) 8/21 teams can have a guy who can hit the Troll with Claw. On CDs it takes either two doubles (Mino) or a double and two normals (Dwarf). Norse, Skaven and Underworld have to win the matchup battle to pull it off; Skaven also need either two doubles on the RO (or lino) or a double and two normals on the Stormvermin. Pact have a similar problem, though with more big guys and just a bunch of skills needed for a Marauder. That means in most formats you're going to take some Claw hits but not nearly enough (by an order of magnitude) for the 56% reduction in KOs (and attendant 24% increase in stuns) to justify the 50% reduction in injury rolls on other hits.