Getting tired playing/losing vs WEs. What team to pick ?

[JaM]

Hi all,

At the moment I dont play in a "big" league. Most of the time I play the same person for a few (2-10) games, with the same team. Then one of us gets bored (or both) and we pick a different team.

At the moment he uses a Wood Elf team, him wanting to try out what all the fuss is all about. He used a DE team some years ago, that went okay.
I opted for Chaos Pact. I love the team-theme, love what you can do to the players, mutating and all, and 3 BGs is wonderfull. However...

I think we played 5 games now, I drwe the first one 3-3, but lost the rest (2-5, 1-4, etc. etc.). I'm getting frustrated here, I position quite good (well, decent anyway) but cant seem to stop him doing... anything. I know that him being elfs he only needs 2+s, but still. I want to have a chance.
Losing a reroll last game due to "bad habits" doesnt really help too. I only have 2 now...

Team looks like this (more or less)

Mino, guard.
Ogre, skill (guard probably)
DE, sure hands (he has a strip ball WD, I knda had to).
Skaven, wrestle.
Gobbo, nothing (apart from a mng and a -1 AV )
1 marauder with guard (to help with blocks).
6 marauders with zero skills.
4 fans, 2 rerolls, 1 apo.

So I am either up for more tactics AGAINS those elfs, but I tried different stuff already on the set-up. Asymetrical, ziggurat ("normal"),...
Apart from a leaping minotour last game due to a card ("of course I roll that 6, here... " ) I didnt have any highlights. Rolled a "1" for winings too, I have 90K in cash now. I was hoping for a tad more and getting a troll...

So, should I change tactics (possibly) or team, or both ?
I have several different teams in the fridge:

a CD team with 2 cows, 5 dwarfs, 4 hobs, 3rr. 1 cow with block. TV 1010

a necromantic team that suffered from the onslaught of a chaos team... 2 WWs, 2 wights, 2 fgs, zombie with kick, some with block, 1 ghoul, some skills here and there... TV somewhere in the 1200

a dark elf team with 4 blitzers, a witch, a runner, some rerolls and decent skills here and there. TV somewhere in the 1200

a pro elf team with 2 blitzers, 2-3 catchers, a thrower, some rerolls, decent skills. TV is 1300 IIRC.

His team consists of 2 WDs, 1 catcher, 3 rerolls, linemen, and skills. No kick yet, thank god. Games would be very very boring then (for me being pact) if he took that. 1 MB WD, 1 SB WD. But quite possibly both WDs have strip after last game. some linos with wrestle, catcher has block-dodge and a +1 AG.

So, suck it up ? Change team (getting tired of CP at the moment, so I am inclined to do this) ? Melt his dice...??
Please vote or/and add some comments, thanks !
I'm getting (a little bit) frustrated. NOT because of the 2+ thing, but because I cant seem to get any advantage from... anything at the moment.

Thanks all,

JaM


p.s. we use LRB 6 (or CRP, or whatever) but also most of the death-zone cards. Just in case you wondered.
p.p.s: I have access to most of the teams out there, except Lizards and Norse. Although I could proxy the latter.

[Smurf]

WE are easy to stop with a hand full of skills. I just had my arse handed to me because my opponent has 3 Tacklers.

Skill up with some tackle and watch all the dodge players not do dodge.

He is not playing a passing game, so line up for the crunch. BTW have you tried collum defence?

As a WE player I laugh at zigs. BTW you have enough guard and use the gobbo as a missile until he dies.

As a WE coach I fear little accept the tacklers and good defence. Mind you, my team may suffer bouts of smacking which needs to be replaced.

[nick_nameless]

Sounds to me like you need some tackle, diving tackle, prehensile tail, and disturbing presence plus some stand firm.

[nick_nameless]

As a WE player I laugh at zigs.

Maybe I am missing something, but it seems to me that columns leaves the middle of your defense open. One 2+ dodge and a scoring threat is through the middle. Make 2 and it becomes really tough to stop the elf player from scoring. It does not seem that this formation helps against elves in my experience. Zigs work with some development os the back winger, especially because it's difficult to get a 2D Block on that player.

Add some Stand Firm/Diving Tackle /Tackle /Prehensile Tail/ Disturbing Presence players in there and it becomes more of an issue for the elf player to get through or throw over the defense. If I were playing in an elf heavy league I would look to spam these skills.

[bwood42]

I'd go with either CD or the Necromantic... it depends on whether you like Werewolves or Bull Centaurs more.

[JaM]

I'd love to get skills, BUT I still need to stop him. He doesnt have that much dodge anyway (only on the Wds and the catcher at the moment). Getting SPPs is hard at this time.

Add some Stand Firm/Diving Tackle /Tackle /Prehensile Tail/ Disturbing Presence players in there

I'd love to. Really. But I cant seem to skill up due to NOT getting the ball where I want. Skills are a luxury at the moment it seems...

[narg]

Well I kinda got flamed in another thread for saying that chaos pact sucked but I still think it's true; or at least they're just not as good as wood elves and if you play against a wood elf coach of similar level you're bound to have a win rate way below 50%; that's what happens when you play with a team of linemen and big guys.

If I had to play purely against wood elves I'd probably go for Norse without the snow troll. Their low armor isn't a problem as the wood elves aren't going to hit you a lot, and the lack of claw isn't a problem either against AV7. Norse tend to be at their best against teams with low AV; you can expect complete wipe-outs in some games and you will quickly kill or maim most of his players, if you have to play against the same team ten times in a row your opponent will quickly be fed up of starting every game with three of four journeymen.

Another fun option could be slanns. You start with one prehensile tail, four diving tacklers and a whole team with very long legs to help intercept.

[Smurf]

As a WE player I laugh at zigs.

Maybe I am missing something, but it seems to me that columns leaves the middle of your defense open. One 2+ dodge and a scoring threat is through the middle...

I would say you are. The scrimmage line needs to be developed to win the collum, that is making it hard as nails. The idea of the collum is to make dodging difficult... and what are you going to run up the middle?

The best skills for the LOS in collum would be sidestep because you position where you want.

[nazgob]

Things I fear when I use Wood Elves:

Strength 4 ball carriers

Guard heavy cages

Therefore, my vote goes for Chaos. Get sure hands on a Chaos Warrior and just laugh your way to a 2:1 grind.

[nick_nameless]

RE: The column defense..

if the columns are positioned so that one is one space off the side of the pitch with the other is two spaces inward and your LOS is three together and centered, then one 2+ dodge roll gets an elf behind the LOS. 2 2+ dodge rolls = 2 elves behind the LOS. etc.

If your defensive ends and midfielders have some appropriate skills (like the ones I mentioned earlier in the thread), then that dodge is much more difficult, but early on it's a 2+ dodge to open field. Sounds like that's where the OP is at right now.

[spubbbba]

Things I fear when I use Wood Elves:

Strength 4 ball carriers

Guard heavy cages

Therefore, my vote goes for Chaos. Get sure hands on a Chaos Warrior and just laugh your way to a 2:1 grind.

The wardancer still has a 1 in 4 chance of getting the ball off him. Even if he has block the dancer can take wrestle.

[mattgslater]

Things I fear when I use Wood Elves:

Strength 4 ball carriers

Guard heavy cages

Therefore, my vote goes for Chaos. Get sure hands on a Chaos Warrior and just laugh your way to a 2:1 grind.

The wardancer still has a 1 in 4 chance of getting the ball off him. Even if he has block the dancer can take wrestle.

1 in 4? How about 1 in 6? After all, you still gotta get there, and that's only 2 in 3.

I used to run columns against Woodies. Then I went to zigs, which have done much better. A heavy team running a zig can force the elves to either play backfield games or go wide; smart teams do the former, throwing a token blitz but not running downfield too early. Shutting out like this is great for manning up on his guys. This is still a T1 offensive failure; it's just an acceptable one for your opponent. It's also the best positive result you can hope for off your defensive setup. Columns are weak up the middle, which is the best place for a Wood Elf team to find its hole for a downfield cage, if that's his strategy. But no matter; if you're getting your butt beat by speedsters, you need to think about offense first.

Agnostic on races. You can do it with whatever you've got. Maybe lean toward Chaos Dwarfs, which is how I voted. But whatever. Maybe that's because I played them last night. Orcs would be good. Start with Sure Hands and a Power Five, very frustrating to crack. Plus four guys with Block roaming free and smacking those juicy AV7 linemen. Especially if he runs a Tree; Orcs are one of those teams that does pretty well against lumber. Chaos too, but they're much softer as rookies.

On offense, try putting up a cage with "wings", that is, using the line to keep your opponent from getting anybody up to front on the cage and to leave your cage with redirect options to either side. That way, even if the Dancer pops it loose, he still needs to do dangerous things in order to get his mitts on it. Always make sure you cage properly. Chain on the line with diagonal blocking (no good reason not to), but try not to take more than 5 blocks on the line, and that many only if you think you want the blockers to stop in their current positions.

[Urb]

I picked CD's. I always build cd's with one sure hands BC then score like mad with him. Obviously block is his next skill and hope for doubles for dodge. Lose cages inviting the WD's to leap in the pummle him to death with all that tackle. Build atleast one MB PO dwarf and the WD's are in serious trouble.

I think dwarves are very similar but slower and slower is bad vs WE.

[Wanchor]

Losing a reroll last game due to "bad habits" doesnt really help too. I only have 2 now...

What do you mean by this?

[mattgslater]

Losing a reroll last game due to "bad habits" doesnt really help too. I only have 2 now...

What do you mean by this?

Old rules. 3e cards had some mean, vicious, permanent effects. Bad Habits costs you a permanent TRRC.

Back in the '90s, I had an Orc team that got Bad Habits three times in the first five games, then bought two TRRs and got Bad Habits the first game after each purchase. Failed almost every FF roll too, back when any roll could fail. Went 13-3 with no TRRs and FF2.