Slann catchers - first skill

[Ferne]

I know some will disagree with the teambuild and first skill-choice, but here goes:

Started a Slann team with 2xB, 2xC, 7xLino and 4RR. The first skill for both catchers was Pass Block. So after game 4 i had 2 players with Pass Block and 2 players with Diving Tackle, and that annoyed the crrap out of the passing teams

Having played 19 matches now i have made 3 interceptions, but most importantly, the passing teams are looking for other options than the two-turn-scoring when playing the Slann team. Which gives me the opportunity to move in closer with my sackers.

Comments and thoughts are most welcome

[MeatLoafX]

I strongly disagree, but I always like hearing about other teams.

I know it's boring, but I almost always pick dodge first. Pass Block seems fun, but not overly useful most of the time. I prefer skills that work against multiple team types - pass block does nothing against bashy run teams.

I agree that Slann teams need to think about pass heavy teams, but that's why I build my blitzers in a certain way.

However, you seem to be having fun with pass block. I look forward to hearing more.

[Coach_Yriel]

I know it's boring, but I almost always pick dodge first.

Is this true even if your first roll is a double/11/12?

[Ferne]

I prefer skills that work against multiple team types - pass block does nothing against bashy run teams.

I agree, but when i started this team i was up against Elf, HE, DE, Vampire, Necro and a Chaos team with a AG4 Pass/StrongArm beastman, so apart from the necro team the rest of them were more or less used to do some passing.

Apart from that, those teams had played some 30-40 games and had tackle galore, so dodge was not really a life-saver in that particular league. So i decided on a skill with an instant effect.

Though I have lost 5 frogs in 19 matches the two PB-catchers has actually survived and one has Blodge/Side Step and the other has Block/NoS. I'm trying not to hog SPP with catchers, but..

So MeatLoaf, how do you build Slann blitzers?

[dr. evil]

I`m going to come down in the middle. I like to have one pass blocker on my team, but it`s usually the 2nd skill I take.

As for Blitzers, I like 1 killer (block, MB, piling on), and 2 screeners (block, dodge, SS, tackle). Make the passing teams work for there two-turn score.

[Corvidius]

My first Slann Catcher (of 3) normally takes Kick Off Return and sets up dead centre my half when recieving the ball. If Kicking he sets up pretty much in the same place to provide mobile assists where necessary.

I find Kick Off Return to be awesome on one Slann Catcher at least. Dodge is also useful however as there's not much can stop you from getting away using a 2+Leap2+Dodge.

[Ferne]

dr. evil - the idea with two pass blockers is, that they can almost cover the width of the field. I like your screeners, but I would probably choose SF instead of SS. And they would be nice with Shadowing as well, though we are talking a lot of SPP to build them..

Corvidius - KOR is a nice skill combined with DC, no doubt, and with two KOReturners you could almost be sure to catch the ball at kickoffs. But then again, the skill is too specific, so I would probably not have more than one player with KOR on my team..

[spubbbba]

those are developed teams you are facing I’m amazed they went for the quick 2 turn score.

Blodge heavy high and dark elves can be pretty bashy when they want to and as slaan are mostly AV7 with few survival skills then they don’t need to score quickly. Far better to grind you down and aim for some cas spp’s.

Passblock is one of those skills I never take as I don’t think worth it as there are loads of better choices, and certainly not 1st skill on your key players.

[Ferne]

those are developed teams you are facing I’m amazed they went for the quick 2 turn score.

Probably blinded by greed - why win 1-0 when you can win 5-1

Passblock is one of those skills I never take as I don’t think worth it as there are loads of better choices, and certainly not 1st skill on your key players

You should try it, it's fun

[mattgslater]

those are developed teams you are facing I’m amazed they went for the quick 2 turn score.

Probably blinded by greed - why win 1-0 when you can win 5-1

Common rookie misconception. 5-1 wins don't come off of quick offensive scores. They come off of quick defensive scores. Quick O-scores aren't bad, by comparison to stalled offenses or turnovers putting you in the hole, but the only way you can capitalize on a fast offensive TD is to do it again on defense. Against Slann, that means doing a lot of damage, and probably involves holding on for four or more turns even if it works. Seven frogs are still dangerous, but they can't run a good offense like seven elves can, especially if you can get them down to one Catcher. Otherwise, you really need to manage your formations to hold them out and play keepaway.

I think it's a reasonable, worthwhile dream to have a pair of Pass Block Slann Catchers. But as a first skill? Heck no! Dodge, +MA, +AG, or +ST; there are no other #1 Slann Catcher skills. Starting at #2, I consider Guard or Nerves on doubles. Pass Block, OTOH, is a #4 in my mind, or maybe a #4 on one Catcher and #2 or #3 on another, newer player at about the same time.

[MeatLoafX]

I know it's boring, but I almost always pick dodge first.

Is this true even if your first roll is a double/11/12?

I would take +AG or +ST, but I'd likely pass on doubles for a first skill (and I've already done so). I've taken doubles as a later skill and choose guard, but I would not make that a first still. Generally only dodge, AG or ST.

I don't take nerves because the diving catch already acts as a mini-nerves for accurate passes.

I also don't take KOR. I undestand the usefulness, but the catchers can pretty much cover the field anyway and my typical 2TT offense makes having the catchers spread out just as useful as KOR.

[Ferne]

5-1 wins don't come off of quick offensive scores. They come off of quick defensive scores

Agreed, but then again, stalling 5-6 turns wont get you that extraordinary big win.

Dodge, +MA, +AG, or +ST; there are no other #1 Slann Catcher skills.

Even in a tackle-galore league?

[Coach_Yriel]

What about HMP on a double? In the league I'm in people have stopped trying to actually play their game against me and are just playing "Kill the Catchers at all costs". HMP could be a punt, or in a foot race with lotta catchers could it be a viable play?

Or Leader for short leagues where you need your positionals early but you are strapped for RR?

I know these go strongly against conventional wisdom but would anyone take these?

[Dzerards]

The problem with Pass Block for me is that it is so easily bypassed by handing off to the receiver who's in danger of getting Pass Blocked. Which is not that hard to arrange for most AG 4 teams. It seems to me that as a skill it comes in to it's own late into games when AG 3 teams are chasing the game and the Lose-O-Meter starts showing it's head.

You're better off inducing Lottabotttol for the games where you want a creditable PB threat. With the Catch reroll he's about as good as an AG 4 catcher for an interception, plus MA 8 Shadowing and Diving Tackle is good enough to give any non-leaping receiver nightmares!

For me it's nearly always Dodge for the catchers, except for MA, AG and ST. If I rolled doubles as a first skill you would still need to convince me not to take Dodge. I know a 2+ Leaping Guarder is Awesome, but a ST 2 AV 7 Leaping Guarder is not long for this world! I'm favouring Pass as a first Doubles skill as Diving Catch gives you a mini NoS already with Guard waiting until after at least one protection skill. I'm quite happy taking 1d pot shots at the ball carriers with my Wrestle frogs at the minute.

As to the OP, giving the development and make up of your league it's not an unreasonable choice. Lettuce know how it pans out.

[MeatLoafX]

What about HMP on a double? In the league I'm in people have stopped trying to actually play their game against me and are just playing "Kill the Catchers at all costs". HMP could be a punt, or in a foot race with lotta catchers could it be a viable play?

Or Leader for short leagues where you need your positionals early but you are strapped for RR?

I know these go strongly against conventional wisdom but would anyone take these?

Not as a first skill. However, HMP is one that I actually like. The froggie punt is a great strategy - often, your catchers will be able to jump in to get a ball you've stripped free. However, they can't get far away and if they are still holding the ball, it could be a problem. Get the ball, punt it away and race after it - it can work. I actually like HMP, but it's a late skill choice and only for one catcher.

I don't take leader, either. RRs are the cheapest around. I'd rather not use up a skill slot for a $20k savings in TV.