Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL

[Darkson]

I have searched about the Av+1 on foul and I have not found anything.

It's just the re-introduction of the old rule where you got +1 to the AV roll when you fouled (i.e. you assist yourself).

[nick_nameless]

FWIW, on face I do not like the idea of the fouler getting a +1 just for not being interfered with combined with the bump for sneaky git.

One word: Hobgoblins.

Chaos Dwarves already do a nice job removing players from the pitch. A hobgoblin with Dirty Player now is at +2 to break armor along with assists. Yikes. Same with Skeletons, zombies, etc. Teams with cheap players become much more powerful. While this might help Goblins, Halflings and Underworld (whose player do not have G access and can't get at Dirty Player easily), I think it makes it too easy to remove a player from the pitch for other teams that don't need the help. It makes "5" much easier to attain.

[Darkson]

Pfffhhh! Still no-where as good as LRB1-4 fouling, which wasn't broken in itself.

[IronAge_Man]

In response to Christer's blog post on FUMBBL, it appears the rising discontent over a few issues with CRP have boiled over!

While many of FUMBBL are quite happy for us to fork the ruleset and create a FUMBBL LRB, I'm much in favour of trying to keep the rules official, but allow them to develop. With no sign of any interest in the game by GW, is it time the community went renegade and just appointed our own rules committee?

I highlighted my ideas here (with a little history for newer coaches, please correct me if I got it wrong):

I think Christer's reticence is precisely because changing the rules without mass argument is so difficult. That's why I'd advocate doing it as part of an official capacity, with the NAF, BBRC remnants and TFF forum.

The format would follow the lines they did under LRB - each year, a Rules Review convenes and a set of rules for testing are proposed. These go into testing.

After a year, the annual Rules Review convenes again, and based upon testing, rules are either included in a new edition of the LRB, tossed away, or tweaked for further testing. More rules are suggested, and the cycle begins again.

The old organisational structure was Jervis Johnson as chair with the casting vote, the BBRC - a panel of senior coaches drawn from the BB community, and a raft of leagues, mostly tabletop and PBeM reporting data and findings to them.

In the case of FUMBBL, we had Div X (X for Experimental - I came up with that name!), which is where Necromantic, Khemri and Vampire teams first appeared. I think this function now could be performed ably by the Leagues - some League commissioners will want to cherrypick the new rules as they appear, some will try them all. FUMBBL couldn't take an active part in the last one or two cycles, as our client was stagnant.

Now, this is no longer true - we have a developer team working with Christer, so in the event of a Rules Review, we could have most of the changes implemented.

[mattski]

I can see it now, the communities from TFF and Fummbl coming together arm-in-arm to design a new set of rules that can be agreed on by all...oh, hold on a second...

It is little surprise that the huge number of games that exist on Fummbl coupled with the anonymity of the internet has highlighted the problem of the killer combo but what makes me smile is that there has already been much discussion about this 'problem' and what to do about it. Good luck with trying to get something sorted there though, I feel you may well need it.

[IronAge_Man]

I can see it now, the communities from TFF and Fummbl coming together arm-in-arm to design a new set of rules that can be agreed on by all...oh, hold on a second...

It is little surprise that the huge number of games that exist on Fummbl coupled with the anonymity of the internet has highlighted the problem of the killer combo but what makes me smile is that there has already been much discussion about this 'problem' and what to do about it. Good luck with trying to get something sorted there though, I feel you may well need it.

I never said it would be easy....

[mattski]

I think the biggest problem will be in squaring the circle of those who would be happy for Fumbbl to just go its own way and those who can see that this is the thin end of the wedge. The latter (I imagine) are those that play in real life rather. And they will be outnumbered.

[Nikolai II]

I have searched about the Av+1 on foul and I have not found anything.

It's just the re-introduction of the old rule where you got +1 to the AV roll when you fouled (i.e. you assist yourself).

In my opinion a better rule would have been "all fouls roll 8+ to get an injury roll" - in effect "all foulers have claw skill". Everything else just makes it more and more obvious that high-AV is the only way to go. Whereas the "everyone's privates are equally soft" does make fouling a valid tactic for all teams. (Even goblins and halflings have some high-AV people on their teams)

[Wylder]

Really disappointed to hear that the community is going to place itself in the position of having divergent rulesets.

BB community is in the best shape it's every been precisely because CRP rules are really well balanced and can be relied on to be completely static. Once the rulesets start to diverge, there is no stopping it and it will definitely drive people away from the game.

No supposed imbalance issues are worth splintering the BB community with divergent rulesets. It will just be going back to the bad old days where BB rules in a given environment were completely dependent on which issues of the GW magazine the league commissioner owned. Even if it's "only" on Fumbbl, and "only" small changes, any house rules that attempt to get marketed as official will be a bad thing for the BB community.

[burgun824]

As far as I can tell they are leaving them as optional rules in their [L]eague division only. I would hardly think of that as a great divergence.

[legowarrior]

There is talk of changing box make by Kristoff. It's on the announcement section.
Personally, looking forward to it, but I think it should be called LRB 6.1 to indicate how small the changes are.

[mepmuff]

What's wrong with the term 'house rules'?

[burgun824]

There is talk of changing box make by Kristoff. It's on the announcement section.
Personally, looking forward to it, but I think it should be called LRB 6.1 to indicate how small the changes are.

Hmmmm. Perhaps a new division all together would be a better way of handling this for play testing purposes.

[spubbbba]

Really disappointed to hear that the community is going to place itself in the position of having divergent rulesets.

BB community is in the best shape it's every been precisely because CRP rules are really well balanced and can be relied on to be completely static. Once the rulesets start to diverge, there is no stopping it and it will definitely drive people away from the game.

No supposed imbalance issues are worth splintering the BB community with divergent rulesets. It will just be going back to the bad old days where BB rules in a given environment were completely dependent on which issues of the GW magazine the league commissioner owned. Even if it's "only" on Fumbbl, and "only" small changes, any house rules that attempt to get marketed as official will be a bad thing for the BB community.

I believe most FUMBBLers are against these changes taking place in the [R] and divisions and would question how many actually think CLAWMBPO is overpowered. As in all things on the internet a few very vocal whingers tend to give a disproportionate impression of what the majority think.

But even if the rules are changed I don’t think this would be such a terrible thing. Most TT leagues have their own house rules either explicit such as less random MVP’s or banning some stars or implicit such as frowning upon stalling. All tabletop tournaments have some sort of house rule as well.

I still believe the issue is more to do with the way teams are matched by TV which encourages min/maxing and taking bashy teams in . There is no evidence of claw teams dominating leagues or tournaments (where winning actually matters) on FUMBBL, Cyanide or TT.

[GalakStarscraper]

There is no evidence of claw teams dominating leagues or tournaments (where winning actually matters) on FUMBBL, Cyanide or TT.

Agreed ... I've given up hope though that many understand why this is important.

The rules per JJ were to be developed for league play (not tournament, not infinite game play whenever online). That is what the BBRC did.

Christer and I talked and I told him that mixing the Bank rules at 100k with the Piling On fix that Ian and I suggested would be a fine house rule for FUMBBL for the group. The mix of the two makes staying at a set TV more challenging and lessens a combo that only matters in a non-league setting. But then I get the we want to keep with the rules as written. Which I totally get ... but the rules were not written for ... so in that case MINOR tweaks like just adding 2 small changes I think is fine. The problem is when I've looked at FUMBBL you have folks asking to completely re-write the rulebook ... which no good can come with. Two small house rules for ... alll good. Massive changes ... not good.

Tom