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Hi there,
I'm starting a High Elves Team in our FFA League, and was stupid enough to challenge a well developed orc team (not that I would have much of a choice of teams ).
How will I ever stop this brutal offense onslaught? (They mostly have block and guard, one with frenzy, TV about 1470K)
I'd be grateful for any tips (Didn't decide on a starting roster yet)
you dont really stand too much of a chance if the team is well built and has a good coach, but take the wizard incudement and that should be enough to stop them scoring at least one touchdown and if you can capitalise on the loose ball you may be able to win.
Starting roster is either
this
8 Linemen
1 Catchers
2 Blitzers
3 Rerolls
Total 1000k
or this
6 Linemen
1 Thrower
2 Catchers
2 Blitzers
2 Rerolls
Total 990k
The second one is for the more experienced coaches, but it gives you the better players from the off. Jsut pick which ever you feel more comfortable using, based on number of Re-rolls
Thank you.
What is your opinion about the blitzers? 3DB covered them as "too expensive for what they do" and allthough I think I need at least one guy with block will it make much of a difference against developed teams?
I even thought about 3 catchers.
Yeah the blitzers are needed, they are your only players with Block, without them you will be risking turn overs every time you blitz. They also give your team a bit more protection. at a higher TV i understand where the 3DB guys are coming for, but I still think they are wrong. linemen cost 70k blitzers 100k linemen with block are 90k and blitzers have one more movement, so well worth every penny in my opinion. It also makes it easy to get two blodge players very quickly, which is important for any elf team.
General Question for Linemen then:
Isn't it better to give the Lineman Fend than Dodge? It seems to me that it is better to be away from the opponent than dodging out after standing up on my turn.
Blitzers - Block, 1st Dodge, 2nd Side Step or Tackle, 3rd Diving Tackle or Tackle
Catchers - 1st Dodge, 2nd Block, then any of these depending on roll Side Step, Tackle, Diving Tackle, Strip Ball, Leap, Jump Up, maybe one with Wrestle
I like one Catcher with Block and Frenzy.
Linemen - Wrestle, Dodge, Side Step or Fend. But High Elves can't really afford fend, sad but true. Their TV always gets too high with just the very basic skills. Another option is just don't take Dodge and go for Wrestle, Side Step, Fend, that way your team can afford Fend. But I don't like Fend anyway.
Trollblanc wrote:General Question for Linemen then:
Isn't it better to give the Lineman Fend than Dodge? It seems to me that it is better to be away from the opponent than dodging out after standing up on my turn.
For all Elvish teams, Dodge is usually a better choice as a #1 skill for their Linemen than Fend. Dodge makes them harder to knock down and has other important uses (higher mobility by "cutting corners", saving rerolls etc). If you get a Lineelf to Level 4, Fend could be an interesting choice after Wrestle/Block and Dodge. However, I'd still prefer Side Step.
For other races that feature Linemen with AG3 and G skill access only, Fend is a fine #2 skill, e.g. Skaven, Humans, Amazons etc.
A couple of thoughts:
- Blitzers are needed. Block and +1 move. But also for the fact that, after 6spps, you have blodgers.
- Wizard should be good for this game (as previously noted).
- You may want to induce a lineman with kick. That could help keep him from getting into his cage too easily to start his drives.
- Wizard
- Prince Moranion. ST4 can help you gain local superiority. Also has Block
- Eldril Sidewinder is awesome but I might steer clear of him against developed orcs. They can probably make it hard to get even a 1d block into a cage hard with positioning Guard right and Eldril is very vulnerable against Block and MB
- Babes are great for elves
Unless you get really badly battered you'll have an ok chance of winning this game. The wizard is just that good for elves.
Solarflare's idea on taking a lino with Kick is nice. However, you lack the Dodge and speed to really pressure the orc side of the pitch when kicking. Also he might have a developed thrower to make Kick less worthwhile.
I certainly wouldn't take less than 3 Rerolls. I know you're elves and everything's an "easy" 2+, but you have to roll a lot of dice each turn and just a single '1' can ruin your drive. The thrower is fantastic at opening up your offense, and I'd rather have the AV8 Thrower with Pass and Safe Throw rather than the AV7 Catcher with Catch early on - anyone can catch as well as a Catcher for the most part, especially if you have a RR ready. No one can throw like a High Elf thrower. Plus, you'll start getting SPP on him immediately, getting him ready for Accurate (hopefully within two games) which makes your team suddenly take off on offense by opening the entire field up when needed.
The Blitzers are key because they can take hits much better than the Catchers early in a league. On top of that, they just need two touchdowns each and then you've got yourself some Blodgers. Catchers need at least 5 touchdowns to be nearly as effective (Wrestle/Block and Dodge). Thus, I don't think their one point of movement justifies taking them over the Blitzers and a Thrower early on - instead, once both Blitzers have Blodge, hire ONE catcher and get him at least one or two skills, then hire another Catcher, do the same, then hire a third, etc. Unskilled Catchers are too expensive and too vulnerable, I feel, so I level them with tunnel-vision.
Against a bashy skilled team, it will be tough, but remember that your journeyman linemen are practically just as good as regular linemen, so don't be too worried if your line takes a beating. However, you can't afford to lose your costly positionals, so keep them as safe as possible and save the Apoths for them.
Your best bet to win is scoring quick defensive touchdowns. The best way to do this is to capitalize on any good kick, failed pick-up, or Fireball-freed ball by snagging possession and scoring as quickly as possible. If you can screen off his ball-carrier from the majority of his team, do it and hope you can jar the ball free before he gets it caged up. Don't be afraid to mark some of his players if it will force them to dodge in order to form up a cage for the ball. You don't want to stall on a defensive touchdown unless it's 100% safe. Taking Kick on the first linemen to level will increase your team's overall change of setting up good kicks for defensive touchdowns (in fact, I would even consider perhaps taking a Mercenary Catcher with Kick for your first game if you can afford a Wizard and that). Until then, against bashy cages, try to slow his cage by forming 'columns' composed of two players spaced out with two squares between each column. He'll have to slowly push through them and hopefully you won't take too much damage.
Other than that, good luck and as always have fun!
Trollblanc - Orcs do not like playing against AG4 teams. Consider that you may have the advantage!
The Wizard is the essential inducement. Babes are good. Moron is also good. You may like to consider an extra player in the form of a Merc (either a Lino, or a second Thrower with Leader).
My normal starting roster with HEs would be:
2 x Blitzers
2 x Catchers
1 x Thrower
6 x Linos
2 x RR
However, if you are entering a league in which other teams are developed, RogueThirteen's suggested starting roster may well have merit.
I develop the HE Catchers as ball-hunting Blitzers for use on defense: Dodge, Wrestle, Tackle, Leap, Pro. They threaten to pop the ball loose from anywhere. The Throwers are so good, you can use anyone as a Receiver on offense. I ignore doubles on the Catchers. Despite their name, the Blitzers are really Blockers!
I like to give the Linos Block first (it protects them, and gives you the means to take lots of quiet blocks without using your valuable positional players). I develop the Linos and Blitzers in similar fashion, with Guard on doubles. Linos go: Block, Dodge, S-Step, Fend. Blitzers go: Dodge, Tackle, S-Step, Fend.
If you don't want to give Wrestle to the Catchers, then you should give it to the Linos. However, this creates a team with a very different and (to my mind) more dull character.
Thank you for all the infos - it was too late to consider the "no catchers" build, and I did build a thrower, 2 blitzer, 2 catcher, 6 linemen, 2 RR build.
RogueThirteen wrote:Your best bet to win is scoring quick defensive touchdowns. The best way to do this is to capitalize on any good kick, failed pick-up, or Fireball-freed ball by snagging possession and scoring as quickly as possible. If you can screen off his ball-carrier from the majority of his team, do it and hope you can jar the ball free before he gets it caged up. Don't be afraid to mark some of his players if it will force them to dodge in order to form up a cage for the ball. You don't want to stall on a defensive touchdown unless it's 100% safe.
Nothing's 100% safe in blood bowl. But bear in mind that the less time orcs have time for another offensive drive, the more risk they'll have to run. Increased orc risk is positively correlated with your chances of getting the ball again.
If you 8 turn stall, a fair few bashers will just go "meh, 1-1 draw and I win 8-0 on cas, I'm good with that". If you score on turn 5 or 6, then orcs find it harder to get down the field in time, and that's when they will take the risk to score(BoB and troll can't properly keep up with a cage that needs to 2-3 turn, leaving them exposed).
Lost 2:1.
I'm still puzzled how I should ever get a ball out of a cage. (apart from a wizard)
He has 2 guarders and there's no way for me to get inside that monster. If I blitz a corner of a cage the orcs bash the hell out of anyone who went in.
).
(Didn't decide on a starting roster yet)
