Wrestle vs Block for Zombies

[swilhelm73]

I've chosen wrestle pretty consistently with my Necro Zombies, and noticed this is somewhat unusual.

The primary reason is that I would love for my 60k piece to take down your 200k killer piece without even having to take an injury roll on your turn. In practice, it doesn't happen that often...as awesome as it is when it does.

But what I have noticed, is it seems very common that I have an opposing ball carrier in the middle of the field, with an unmarked wrestle zombie nearby. People focus on the positionals, leaving the lowly zombies a shot at the ball, and even with a 1D against a blodger a 1/3 chance of knocking the ball lose.

The bonus is that this means the player used in loosening the ball is AG2 - leaving a greater chance for an AG3 player to have an action to pick up the ball.

Finally, zombies are pretty much never ball carriers, so wrestle can't be used against them (something I always worry about with ag3+ wrestle players)

Thoughts?

[Smeborg]

swil - I don't believe there is a clear answer to your question. If you like what's happening, then it tends to indicate that your choice fits your playing style, and is therefore "correct".

You are right that Wrestle is more likely to come into play in your turn than in your opponent's. By extension, I find Wrestle more valuable on a faster, more agile player (who can threaten to sack the ball-carrier from a good distance). For this reason, I like to consider development plans for Necros and Undead that allow the Ghouls to take Wrestle (but this system does not appear to be generally popular).

I like to give Zombies Guard on a double (I think that is the most popular doubles choice for them). Block fits somewhat better with Guard than does Wrestle.

The main argument for Wrestle on Zombies is to increase the active threat that they pose (which can be further increased with Tackle). They threaten to attack the ball or to open up gaps during your turn. This is your main argument. I too have always enjoyed having somewhat more "active" Zombies (for example with AG3). Because they are uncharismatic, opponents tend to ignore or underestimate the threat that they pose. If your Wrestle+Tackle Zombies get lucky and reach higher skill levels, you can consider making them even more "active" with skills like Dauntless and/or Pro. But I suspect you might be reluctant to leave such a blessed creature on the LoS.

Defensively, Wrestle+Fend Zombies might be something to aspire to, although it would take quite a lot of team development to get 3 of them. I have not tried this, so I will let others comment on its effectiveness. I think I would find it quite annoying as the opponent.

One thing to watch out for is Piling On. I notice that a team with 2 or 3 Wrestle Linos, plus one or more P-On players, can get into trouble through having too many players on the ground at the same time!

Hope that helps.

[Smurf]

It may work. I like new ideas. If you wrestle stuff down you can get to shuffle through the gaps.

Remember: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE WRESTLE. When your opponent blocks a wrestle zombie without block, make sure you do not use wrestle... force a reroll or their turn over. With AV8 they are pretty tough.

[spubbbba]

The trouble with wrestle on the zombies is that going prone tends to be a bad idea as you can only move a single square when they get up again unless you want to risk GFI’s. It also means you may lose out on blocking the other player back in return.

Often you just want zombies to stand there and mark players so by going prone you make it easier for the other team to move away without needing to roll any dice at all.

[burgun824]

I agree with spubbbba. I take block on my zombies because they rarely ever live to see a second skill. And if they do live to see a second skill they are usually retired to save TV unless they have guard. A guard zombie is a gift and is worth the TV, especially on an undead team where you can stand him next to your two guard/stand firm mummies. It's a menacing line.

Having said that, I also agree with Smeborg. If you like what you're seeing then go with it. Just because conventional wisdom says one thing doesn't mean you should be forced to play that way. It's a game, have fun.

[MKL]

Hi Swilehelm! Thank you for bringing up this question.
Many times I mumbled about taking Wrestle on the Zombies to give a little more “punch” to my Necros. In the end I always took Block for two reasons:

-Zombies have poor mobility and rarely can move where their skills are needed.
-Necros need roadblocks: Zombies have to keep their position and shield the Wolves/Ghouls.

(Incidentally, for the same reasons I'm tempted to give to double-Zombies S-Firm in lieu of Guard... But obviously Necros are always starving for more Guard, so it's a moot point.)

That said, you make good arguments for Wrestle.

[Smurf]

Stand firm: Good Call.

4 SF players may thwart the opposition. Leaving 4 Speedy dudes, 2 Wights and a Zombie to hopefully get guard and block.

In a Necro Team do you work Wights more than Werewolves?

[MKL]

Stand firm: Good Call.

4 SF players may thwart the opposition. Leaving 4 Speedy dudes, 2 Wights and a Zombie to hopefully get guard and block.

In a Necro Team do you work Wights more than Werewolves?

Smurf, I assume you are speaking to me.
Excuse me but, being not native speaker, I don't understand what do you mean with
"In a Necro Team do you work Wights more than Werewolves?"

[Dzerards]

Stand firm: Good Call.

4 SF players may thwart the opposition. Leaving 4 Speedy dudes, 2 Wights and a Zombie to hopefully get guard and block.

In a Necro Team do you work Wights more than Werewolves?

Smurf, I assume you are speaking to me.
Excuse me but, being not native speaker, I don't understand what do you mean with
"In a Necro Team do you work Wights more than Werewolves?"

I wouldn't worry. I am a native speaker and I lived in Bristol for 7 years and I'm not sure what he means either!

As to the OP's question, if wrestle does the job for you, then work it baby. I'm more a Block man myself when it comes to Zombies, preferring Wrestle of Skellies. Though I once took Grab as a first skill on a Zed so...

[Smurf]

OK!

Which scores more Touch Downs in a Necro Team: Wights or Werewolves?

[MKL]

OK!

Which scores more Touch Downs in a Necro Team: Wights or Werewolves?

In my experience, the Wolves. Their speed endeavor to opportunistic defensive TD.
Most of the time the Wight need to act as Blockers (as opposed to the Undead, where they are the Blitzers).
Smeborg some time ago was planning a Necro team with Wight ball-carriers
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=34411&hilit=Wight+Necro

[Smurf]

If that is the case then as soon as a pair of wolves have block/wreste(?) why not shift the emphasis on to the Wights. Let them get a good set of TDs and maybe get them up to 16spp, go back to a bit of wolf activity to get them up to 16spp, shift back to the Wights to power them up to the 31 SPP mark and then the Werewolves too.

Must admit the Wight has some lack lustre about them: 6338 block &Regen With GS access I would try and go MB and Tackle... 3rd skill Grab... here doggy, chew the new toy.

That's just off the top of my head.

So many teams to play and so little time to play them.

[garion]

So many teams to play and so little time to play them.

Thats what fumbbl is so good for

Also Block no question, your zombies don't want to be prone they are too slow, also block does more damage and they are quite a bashy race. Also if you get doubles on your zombies you want guard all round which doesn't double up with wrestle so well.

[swilhelm73]

OK!

Which scores more Touch Downs in a Necro Team: Wights or Werewolves?

For my team it is actually the wights. Of course my team got some interesting rolls strongly pointing me in that direction.

Wight: +AG, +AG, Guard, Dodge
Wight: +AG, MB, Guard, Tackle, SF
WW: Block, Dodge, MB, PO, SS
WW: Block, Dodge, MB, Dauntless, Tackle

So the WWs are dedicated blitzer/killers, and the wights and the ghouls are the ball carriers. AG5+dodge is awesome for collecting any dropped balls, and MB+Claw+Frenzy is fun, fun FUN!

[swilhelm73]

Hi Swilehelm! Thank you for bringing up this question.
Many times I mumbled about taking Wrestle on the Zombies to give a little more “punch” to my Necros. In the end I always took Block for two reasons:

-Zombies have poor mobility and rarely can move where their skills are needed.
-Necros need roadblocks: Zombies have to keep their position and shield the Wolves/Ghouls.

(Incidentally, for the same reasons I'm tempted to give to double-Zombies S-Firm in lieu of Guard... But obviously Necros are always starving for more Guard, so it's a moot point.)

That said, you make good arguments for Wrestle.

Well, my experience is that the zombies hang around in the middle of the pitch, but if you use the FGs (SF) and WWs (Frenzy) right, that is exactly where your opponent will be. There is nothing I like more then seeing someone try to cage around wrestle zombies - with an assist they open the cage, and often are in a position for the old 1D block on the ball carrier.

Now, if you do roll doubles out of the gate, guard/block would have to be the choice. But wrestle/dodge on the D-line isn't bad either.