Narrow Tiers and Galaks Wish List

[neverworking]

If I follow the bank rules, you will make a 600k team, put 100k in the bank, and the remaining 300k counts towards your tv.

[dode74]

Indeed, and you can either buy/sell cheerleaders to get rid of it or use it as petty cash.

[plasmoid]

Hi guys,

And what if you format doesn't allow for star players? Or you play box?

Well, if your format doesn't allow stars, then I think it's screwing gobbos and flings.
Fix the format. Not the rules.

Neverworking said:

If I follow the bank rules, you will make a 600k team, put 100k in the bank, and the remaining 300k counts towards your tv.

The cash would count towards your TV. But it would also be available for the pre-match to induce Deeproot.
Remember, Bank replaces 'petty cash' rule (so the cash doesn't count twice).

Cheers
Martin

[plasmoid]

Hi Garion,
sorry for the delay

But will side step no just be ignored for Fend anyway, as zons are probably the best team in the game for spamming fend at the moment along with norse. But anyway, look forward to seeing how they pan out.

Possibly.
Then again, PiOn is getting a nerf, so perhaps I coach would be wise to not spam fend on everyone.
Maybe fend on 3 linechecks. Then sidestep on some of the other girls.

Flings - cool, 6 rr chef rolls is nice certainly. If you want to have a look at some other playtested fling rosters here is a nice selection, you may get some ideas - http://www.sg.tacticalwargames.net/fanatic/84hhab.pdf
As for P skills, yeah your own your own there

Heh, actually one of those rosters has a P-skill halfling. But never mind, those rosters are far from what I'm trying to do.

Khemri yeah boy are they dull, at least they are till you get some ditry player en masse and a deep bench, which still works quite nicely even in this massivley nefred DP rule set. Do you know if anyon has been trying to dodge TGs into cages yet in this tourney, because that is certainly a tactc I would employ. If not give the guy thats playing them a nudge for me, unless they are in my Lizardman group hehe

Don't worry. Atropabelladonna is a very capable coach.
And he did dodge a few times against my Nurgle.
But don't underestimate how limited their reach is, given MA4 and AG1. They'll not be cutting any corners beside the one they want to go through. Stick a lineman in their path and they won't be BT'ing anywhere.

Edit: and yeah that Ogre game is definately a fluke lol Also if you want to speak to the best Ogre coach I have ever seen speak to Vicius on fumbbl I think his opinion would be interesting. Just send him a PM I'm sure he would be ahppy to oblige.

We'll see. Right new he's 1 win, 1 loss, 1 tie - with only half of the boosts I suggested.
If Vicious was the best ogre coach under the old paradigm, then I think I can figure out what he'll say....

Cheers
Martin

[garion]

Edit: and yeah that Ogre game is definately a fluke lol Also if you want to speak to the best Ogre coach I have ever seen speak to Vicius on fumbbl I think his opinion would be interesting. Just send him a PM I'm sure he would be ahppy to oblige.

We'll see. Right new he's 1 win, 1 loss, 1 tie - with only half of the boosts I suggested.
If Vicius was the best ogre coach under the old paradigm, then I think I can figure out what he'll say....
Cheers
Martin

Yeah i saw that too, just another fluke lol Even if he wins every game from now on, I still will not believe the boost is enough lol XD

[zebulon]

And what did you thought about using a bribe for winning automatically the toss? (after rolling a 2+ naturally).

When playing Gobbos, with the 50K bribe, I find this team really better when attacking at first.

After all, any teams, for me, are able to corrupt a referee before the game begin. Seems to be fluff, isn't it?

No way, winning the toss is HUGE now at a high TV, CPOMB vs CPOMB match ups are often decided by the toss. If palmed coin was an inducement it would need to be 200k.

But I do get where you are coming from, because goblins benefit hugely from winning the toss if they dont they can be in real trouble when playing elves. The elves will either score
quickly if you have all your weapons on and then they all get sent off quickly, or they do enough damage to your team then score in turn 8 so you are forced to field your star players for only 1 turn. Its nasty. Best solution to this ... bring back secret weapon rolls.

You don't think the Galak's bank system and a change of the Spiralling Expense are enough to struggle against this?

Perpetual league and high TV seems to be extrem for this game. At least, for me.
I'm only playing on short term league and tournament, so don't really understand all the things.

And thanks for your answer. All the best.

[garion]

Sorry I'm sure what you are really asking here? Would you mind clarifying, thanks

[zebulon]

Sorry.

You say using a bribe for winning the toss for 100K is huge at high TV or/and on a CPOMB Vs CPOMB match up.

1)Then, I try to ask you if the problem is there is too much team with too high TV and too much team with massive CPOMB?

2)And also try to ask you if a Spiralling Expenses changes (for example Standard Spiralling Expenses should be set at a starting point of 170, with steps of 10.) and the Bank rules (Cash in the Bank does not count towards TV max 100K, but cash in the treasury does) could be a solution for 1)?

[plasmoid]

Hi all,
I think Voyagers_uk asked for a status report. So here goes.
The changes in green are updates, based on either playtest feedback or online discussion.

Rosters
In short, I'm trying to narrow the tiers, not eliminate them entirely

-----------------Nerfs-----------------------------------------------------
Orcs: Orc Blitzers are 90K
Dwarf: TrollSlayers lose Block, gain Juggernaut
WoodElfs: Wardancers lose Dodge, gain Fend
Undead: Mummies lose Mighty Blow, gain Grab. Mummies gain G-access
Amazon: Blitzers lose Block, gain Wrestle. All players gain A-access
-----------Minor Buffs-------------------------------------------------------
Human: Catchers get AV8. Ogres become 130K
Khemri: Thros and Blitz's gain Thick Skull. TGs become 110K 4518 Regen, Break Tackle
Vampires: Thralls gain Thick Skull. ReRolls at 60K
------------Major Buffs------------------------------------------------------
Halflings: Get AV7. May permanently hire a Master Chef. May still induce a (potentially second) Master Chef.
Gobbos: Gain a 3rd troll
Ogres: Ogres at 130K. Snots gain MA6. Rerolls at 60K. Snots also gain AV6.

Rules
The rules are intended to reel in high-TV bash teams. (Wizard nerfed to reflect the new balance of power).
1) Piling On nerfed. I like my own version, but I guess I'll have to accept Ian/Galaks version eventually.
2) +1 modifier to the armor roll on fouls
3) Sneaky Get can be used to assist a fouler even when in a TZ
4) Right Stuff prevents Tackle from affecting opposing blocks/blitzes
5) Bank at 100K
6) Standard spiralling expenses at 1800K, steps of 100K
7) Concession don't grant extra cash
Wizard loses the Lightning Bolt spell - possibly to be replaced by a Toad/Zap! spell

http://www.plasmoids.dk/bbowl/NTBB.htm
Cheers
Martin

[spubbbba]

-----------------Nerfs-----------------------------------------------------
Amazon: Blitzers lose Block, gain Wrestle. All players gain A-access

That's a buff rather than a nerf unless some/all them lose dodge.

Wizard loses the Lightning Bolt spell - possibly to be replaced by a Toad/Zap! spell

Yes! to Zzap and i think lightning is good vs elves as well since you can use it to hit the deep thrower if they go for that tactic. Maybe make em 200K and have all 3 spells available?

[plasmoid]

Hi Spubbbba,
thanks for chipping in

That's a buff rather than a nerf unless some/all them lose dodge.

Like the undead I'm shooting for a short term nerf - which in turn will entail a long term buff.
I took the idea to 4 very experienced amazon coaches, and apart from the one who thought zons are currently fine, the remaining 3 had very different opinions about the impact of this. So I'll take it to playtest, and trust my own gut feeling for now.
I know someone else said the same thing as you on FUMBBL... I think I replied there too.

But I'm certain it will weaken them in tournament play.
Blodgers with guard is their thing - wrestle does not work well on guard players.

In short term league play I think starting with blodgers is a lot more powerful than the occasional shot you'll get at a block ball-carrier with your 4 wrestle girls.

In long term league play I think Jump Up and Side Step will be interesting picks. Some of the coaches I asked agreed. One of them figured they'd be 3rd picks at best, and hence not see much play.

Yes! to Zzap and i think lightning is good vs elves as well since you can use it to hit the deep thrower if they go for that tactic. Maybe make em 200K and have all 3 spells available?

I think Lightning is a lot better for elves than against elves.
Yes, the lone deep thrower can be threatened by Lightning, but if he's deep enough, it can be countered by giving him a wing man - Which is annoying but by no means as devastating as trying to cover any ball-bounce from the reach of fast AG4 dodge players. IMO, ball on the ground followed by a choice blitz and a fast ball grabber is a maneuver that is reasonably likely to succeed.

Cheers
Martin

[legowarrior]

I like the changes you've made except pile on. My suggested and Newbie change would be that pile on is treated as if you fouled when you use it. Take all the modifiers you want, but when it is all said and done, if you get caught by the ref, you get sent off.

Anyways, my two cents.

[dode74]

I prefer your PO to Tom/Ian's. The math from your version does precisely what people want it to do. Perhaps if you were to run through it that would say some people?

[bouf]

Hi all,
I think Voyagers_uk asked for a status report. So here goes.
The changes in green are updates, based on either playtest feedback or online discussion.

Wowee! just found this thread and I love these discussions!

Rosters
In short, I'm trying to narrow the tiers, not eliminate them entirely

-----------------Nerfs-----------------------------------------------------
Orcs: Orc Blitzers are 90K
Dwarf: TrollSlayers lose Block, gain Juggernaut
WoodElfs: Wardancers lose Dodge, gain Fend
Undead: Mummies lose Mighty Blow, gain Grab. Mummies gain G-access
Amazon: Blitzers lose Block, gain Wrestle. All players gain A-access

I really don't like Mummies getting G access. Like REALLY! Undead/Necromantic teams run riot over BABBL (a long season TT league) and for Undead... I don't believe it's mighty blow thats the problem. Its ST5 x2. Give them Block and no loner, no negtraits, possible ST6... Not good for us long term guys!!!

Slayer change is rather meh, but anything is better than nothing.
Dancers is good. Fitting with the other elf teams that are sadly lacking Dodge.
Orcs, fair enough... but I wish they couldn't take Goblins (given the right stuff change)

The Amazon Changes I don't like. I disagree entirely that they need any adjustment. The cost of the blitzers is penalty enough. The team performs well, but not out of synch. They are the most boring 'stat' players but that's their gimmic. I guess they would/should over-perform in tournaments... but there are plenty of teams that under-perform in tourneys too so I don't really see a problem with that. Having said all that, I would entertain the Wrestle/block change up if there was either a price reduction (preferred) or a MA buff (meh)

-----------Minor Buffs-------------------------------------------------------
Human: Catchers get AV8. Ogres become 130K
Khemri: Thros and Blitz's gain Thick Skull. TGs become 110K 4518 Regen, Break Tackle
Vampires: Thralls gain Thick Skull. ReRolls at 60K

No big issue with these...
The Humans don't "need" a buff, but I'm sure that one is welcome.
Khemri, Go for it! I always preferred the Break Tackle roster.
Vamps, Again... playing in Long Leagues sees Vamps shine! I would be happy to see the thralls gain Thick Skull, but not the RR change. They should remain 70k. It makes it tougher to deal with Blood Lust out of the box.

------------Major Buffs------------------------------------------------------
Halflings: Get AV7. May permanently hire a Master Chef. May still induce a (potentially second) Master Chef.

AV7 is great. They're still -MA on a goblin for 10k price drop. As far as the rostered Chef... I don't like paying for it. It's clumsy. Same as the "Necromancer" it should be free. So I guess they should get a weaker version for free... maybe 5+ rather than 4+.

I'd prefer maybe an automatic RR steal every drive for free. Then make the Chef inducement 0-2.

Gobbos: Gain a 3rd troll

Nasty... I love it. After all, they're still loners and still stupid.

Ogres: Ogres at 130K. Snots gain MA6. Rerolls at 60K. Snots also gain AV6.

My all time favourite team! I never thought the 'Ogres' needed mucking with, but have been singing about MA6 snots for donkeys!
The Cost reduction (and right stuff change) would only be a welcome change. reduce the RRs too... It's getting to be pretty awesome!!! I mean Ogre teams are hella fun now... add all this and woah, I'll never spurn them again!!!

However, I do not like the AV6 AND MA6. Leave the AV5. I like the paper men falling apart all over.
Reduce all these costs and the spiral won't be so bad, so you can afford lots of snots. The right stuff and MA changes will only make them live longer... Sort of... so thats enough for me!

AGAIN, I LOVE OGRES, and I'm still suggesting AV5 snotlings

Rules
The rules are intended to reel in high-TV bash teams. (Wizard nerfed to reflect the new balance of power).
1) Piling On nerfed. I like my own version, but I guess I'll have to accept Ian/Galaks version eventually.

Agreed that Bash is a bit easy with a good PO player. I don't like the "No modifier" version, but I suppose it's better than nothing. The +1 version is "cleaner" and easier to use. You know what you get with that version.
because it's clear cut... you'll see people taking it over Mighty Blow on doubles. You can be afforded some "Protection" by being prone... if some one does foul you, they could get ejected without so much as a stun. Thats a chance to take out two players!

2) +1 modifier to the armor roll on fouls
3) Sneaky Get can be used to assist a fouler even when in a TZ

Love it. I absolutely love fouling. Anything to make it easier! Plus it would help measure the "going prone" malarky above.

4) Right Stuff prevents Tackle from affecting opposing blocks/blitzes

Like it except for Goblins on Orc rosters...

5) Bank at 100K

I never liked this rule... It's kinda clumsy... I dunno, just leaves a sour taste. I'd rather see some kind of Treasury limit than this system.

6) Standard spiralling expenses at 1800K, steps of 100K

Already use it! If you don't start!!! It helps a long way to reigning in Killer teams!

7) Concession don't grant extra cash

No worries there.

Wizard loses the Lightning Bolt spell - possibly to be replaced by a Toad/Zap! spell

Love... Love... LOVE IT!!! I miss Zap soooooo much! but maybe give the frog right stuff, to kill off 'tackle pow'. I know if there was a big guy or a Pile On/Claw guy that I hated... I'd frog 'im and pile/foul on as soon as able! (that may take care of those mummies I hate so much!)

[bouf]

Had a good hard think...

Halflings getting a rostered chef... if you must pay for it, there is not much difference between that and getting 0-2 chefs... either way you need an excess 100k to get a chef. Argument could be made not to buy one because if I don't I have flexibility to either get Deeproot or the chef. If I roster one for 100k, I may screw myself out of the 3rd tree.

I'd rather see them get a free one. What shape that takes I don't know... but a free one.
Maybe like I suggested above... 1 automatic RR every drive, then make the chef 0-2 on top of that.

Wizards and Lightning/Zap... What about different wizards at different values. Again, i don't know what shape, but maybe 100k for a Fireball, 150 for Zap, 200 for lightning???

With all the proposed changes to the "Stunty Teams", would you still need the right stuff vs. tackle change? I mean, the Ogre teams and the Goblin teams would be VERY Strong with these changes all combined. Would they be woody/dwarf strong? maybe not, but very very strong! Underworld would be very macho too. Not hard to get 2+ dodges and horny goblins that become VERY hard to take out.

On the 6-1-3-6 Snots... I guess when you compare them to 6-2-3-7 goblins (at 40k) and 5-2-3-7 flings (at 30k) the -1ST penalty (tempered by a SS skill boost) doesn't seem that bad for a 20k player. I still don't think they need it, but I'm kinda on the fence...

Still hate the bank... Hate it enough to start a whole new thread!!!