Chaos dwarf defensive setups and other silly questions

[klauser]

For a rookie match of CD vs any Elf team (both with starting roster), is the following defensive formation any good?



The idea is that the opp would have to rely on a 1D block on the LoS to get any assists against the remaining LoS pieces. The down side is that you cannot respect Quick Snap and you risk a lucky shot against your bull centaurs.

Thoughts?

[swilhelm73]

For a rookie match of CD vs any Elf team (both with starting roster), is the following defensive formation any good?



The idea is that the opp would have to rely on a 1D block on the LoS to get any assists against the remaining LoS pieces. The down side is that you cannot respect Quick Snap and you risk a lucky shot against your bull centaurs.

Thoughts?

With that setup I'd move all the non-line players back a spot. Keep in mind with a QS, its not just a lucky shot on your BCs, but conceivably two players knocked down on the sideline and an almost certain elf score.

[klauser]

With that setup I'd move all the non-line players back a spot. Keep in mind with a QS, its not just a lucky shot on your BCs, but conceivably two players knocked down on the sideline and an almost certain elf score.

Well, I could move back the outer pillars one square, but the whole idea of this set-up is to prevent additional assits being positioned on the sides of the LoS pieces. This is achieved by having the non-LoS players only one square back from the LoS. Obviously that bears a risk and I'm wondering if it would be worth it.

[mattgslater]

I used to run that defense all the time. You'll sometimes get beaten up the middle. Have you thought about moving the defenders in the second rank (the front of the column) inside one square each, to create a Zig defense? That gives up action more readily on the sidelines, but you can just use Bull Centaurs there to shut that down. Then they'll have to blitz and pow to get into the interior.

[klauser]

I used to run that defense all the time. You'll sometimes get beaten up the middle. Have you thought about moving the defenders in the second rank (the front of the column) inside one square each, to create a Zig defense? That gives up action more readily on the sidelines, but you can just use Bull Centaurs there to shut that down. Then they'll have to blitz and pow to get into the interior.

The thing is, if I put the bull centaurs on the wings, then they will get 2D blocks on my LoS. So that kinda renders the whole idea obsolete I'm afraid. Bulls have to go on the line. If I don't want to take that risk, I'd run the following alternative defense with the bulls on the wings:

[Coach Grievous]

I used to run that defense all the time. You'll sometimes get beaten up the middle. Have you thought about moving the defenders in the second rank (the front of the column) inside one square each, to create a Zig defense? That gives up action more readily on the sidelines, but you can just use Bull Centaurs there to shut that down. Then they'll have to blitz and pow to get into the interior.

The thing is, if I put the bull centaurs on the wings, then they will get 2D blocks on my LoS. So that kinda renders the whole idea obsolete I'm afraid. Bulls have to go on the line. If I don't want to take that risk, I'd running the following alternative defense with the bulls on the wings:

I'd strongly suggest taking the Bulls off the line. First, they are way too easy too bring down, thus endangering two crucial pieces in your team. With one Blitz with even a pushback, it's easy to bring enough assists to overpower the entire line - even if they are ST4. Second, even if they can't actually knock them down, in cases where they aren't just dodging away (which is doubtful with that setup, since they'll need to go through the middle) they will be able to tie them up. I'd want my fast, strong Bull Centaurs to be able to reposition at will and easily.

[dines]

Agree with Grievous, the bulls should be able to run free, nothing worse than tied up rookie bulls. And even though you make the LOS blocks a bit more difficult, they get free blocks on players without block instead of your dwarves.

[mattgslater]

Yeah. That's why I like them as Zig wingers. You can't safely mark them; you either have to blitz or leave them alone!

Forget about not giving up 2d on the LOS. Sorry. You're not Orcs: don't play like Orcs. Trust in AV9/Block/Thick Skull on the line, with the other two Dwarfs on the inside.

[dines]

Having now beaten the rookie high elves and developed norse soundly, the team looks like this:

Bull block, break tackle, ST (frenzy/mb) 53 normal skill pending
Bull break tackle, block, guard (sf/mb) 34
Dwarf guard, mb (grab/sf) 10
Dwarf (mb/guard) 4
Dwarf guard, mb (grab/sf) 18
Dwarf guard, mb (grab/sf) 26
Dwarf guard (mb) 12
Dwarf mb, claw, po (?) 35
Hobbo (block) 1
Hobbo (block) 0
Hobbo dodge, block, sure hands (kor) 31
Hobbo block (sure hands) 13
Hobbo dirty player 6

3 rerolls
APO
TV 1730

I have yet to meet developed necro (his third season) and a semi-rookie lizards (played 7 games) before playoffs.

Redarding the skil plan, the first guard, mb dwarf to reach 31 spps, will get grab, the others sf. The hobbos are fine with just block, but I'll make one backup ballcarrier. Bulls are the question, I don't regret guard on one, he's really good at protecting my ballcarrier, and as I spend most of the time on offense thats really useful. The other one is more of a blitzer, but as the dwarves hit harder and has tackle I usually prefer them if they are within range. He has also scored the majority of my touchdowns, especially in defence and when I really had control of the game. For the blitzing part, frenzy could be cool, but that would be annoying when he carries the ball. I had hoped for a double for dodge...

[Smurf]

As an Elf player collum defence does my head in. All others I can usually deal with on a blitz or elf dodge style.

The collum defence gets better with the team. LOS should think of wrestle, dodge and sidestep... it helps plug up the hole.

VS this defence, as an elf I do not want to run up the middle and get caged. That is a lot of players to surround the elf breakthrough.

Other way ignore it and watch the collums come to you. Hence Collum defence is good against impatient speed teams and good against a 2 turn scorer.

VS slow teams then don't bother with Collum defence.

[mattgslater]

Contrary to the conventional wisdom, I like sideline-to-sideline defenses against bash teams. Usually the wingers on the off-side are fast enough to get back into position and seal off the edge, and I tend to have a lot of players unmarked after T1. My record with the team I do this with the most isn't great (15-8-11 right now), but my failures have mostly come on offense. I don't give up a lot of defensive TDs, and when I do, it's usually a consequence of multiple injuries on the first few blocks. (For some reason, this team has gotten a lot of those drives, which seems odd).

[klauser]

How do you use Zzharg Madeye?

Would you only induce him when you have bunch of Bribes?
If you hire him, do you run the ball with him or would you simply use him as another ST4 piece/cage corner? Would you consider fielding him on defense too?

My rookie Chaos Dwarves are facing off against rookie Humans (3rd game for each team), and I have exactly 90k to spend. I only have 11 players so far, so I tend towards hiring a Merc Hobo. Zzharg would be an alternative, but I risk going man-down in case of a defensive TD or if I'm forced to line him up on defense first half (early opposing TD and a KO/Injury against me).

[dines]

Never tried Zzharg but as I see him, its mostly for the ST4 rather than toying with the ball. With only 11 players you risk really low value out of him if the opponent starts and score late in the half while cas/ko'ing one of your players. On the other hand if he starts and you put him in defence, he might be tempted to score quickly and that would make your 2-1 grind attempt easier - even though he might not see that much action.

[mattgslater]

I like AV9 stars on defense. I think it's great putting him on the LOS, so it's not guys you care about taking the hits.