High Elves against Papa Nurgle, how to?

[Viajero]

Ok, would appreciate any piece of advice on how to handle Papa nurgle playing as High Elf...

This is a the 3rd game in a new League for both teams so only a few skills in each:

My HiE team has:

Blitzer 1: Block, Dodge
Blitzer 2: Block, Dodge
Thrower: Pass, Safe Throw
Lino 1: Dodge
Lino 2: unskilled
Lino 3: unskilled
Lino 4: unskilled
Lino 5: unskilled
Lino 6: unskilled
Lino 7: loner (journeyman)
Lino 8: loner (journeyman)
(yeah, two straigh deaths in my first 2 games...)
3RR, Apo

Nurgle team has:

Beast: Unskilled
NW1: skill up pending (my guess is Block)
NW2: skill up pending (my guess is also Block)
NW3: unskilled
NW4: unskilled
Pestigor: unskilled
Rotter 1: Guard
Rotter 2: unskilled
Rotter 3: unskilled
Rotter 4: unskilled
Rotter 5: unskilled
Pestigor 2: unskilled

2RR

How would you go about planning the game against Nurgle in both attack and defense?

My plan would be to kick first if I can to start and stop his drive with my full team, just in case.

My biggest concern is obviosuly attack. I have not got any catchers yet so my speed is limited, and obviosuly I can not rely on the passing game given 5 pieces with DS. My first instinct would be to try and hold the ball back and stretch along the pitch so I can create holes. Give the ball to one of my Blodge Blitzers and have him carry under a running game, caging as best as I can to avoid the beast blitzing in, or feeding her one of my loners maybe.

Problem with this is that Nurgle decides to simply form a defensive line it would be quite difficult for me to penetrate in a running game... and passing is not an option.

In Defense I ll try the classic elf defense, but the beast is always an issue so I ll be in the hands of Nuffle for the most part, me thinks!

Any better ideas?

[pauli42]

This Nurgle Team has a weak spot and this are the two Pestigors! Get them out of play, hunt them, bring them down, foul them..do whatever u have to! Without Pestigors his options are limited. Just hit a bit, avoid any follow ups and blocks and use your speed.

You should start with your offence, then u can avoid a lot of blocks and don't score to fast! Wait until u get the Pestigors out of play. So a 1:0 lead and both Pestigors out is perfect for u.

[Hitonagashi]

Flanks.

Feint to one side with one blitzer and a couple of linemen.

Hopefully, he'll commit some pestigors to try and stop you, and if you are really lucky, a couple of nurgle warriors will lumber over there too(if it looks like your entire team is committed). You then flip flanks, if you can get away with it, passing to the other blitzer who hides on the opposite side with the far edges of the cage (but watch for disturbing presence!) before storming down the pitch.

Nurgle's BIG disadvantage over chaos is they are seriously seriously slow. That extra point of movement less on most of the team doesn't look like much, but it means that if he overcommits at any point, you've got him.

Watch the beast. I sometimes feed the beast a lineman to keep him preocuppied.

The general key to beating nurgle is to out position them. Probe and fall back if necessary, don't get hemmed in. Keep your team mobile, and keep out of contact.

I've never really had any problems beating Nurgle with fast moving teams. It requires almost perfect positional play on behalf of the Nurgle coach to not open up his defenses....and you are elves, so at the end of the day, a blitz and 3x 3+'s with a reroll will usually just dodge a player and a couple of covers straight through the defense. As emergency last resorts go, it's not half bad!

The main thing to be careful of is defense. Try and avoid scoring early...Nurgle usually struggle to score in 3 turns, and would prefer 4. If you reduce him to 2 turns, you can probably stop it. You will however have to turn him over...this bit is hard!

With a setup like yours, he won't be able to keep all 4 nurgle warriors (or 3 and a beast) as cage corners all half. I'd punch out a pestigor as soon as it takes up a corner and stick a blodging blitzer in. With blodge, you should be able to retreat, and he *really* doesn't want to be making a 3+ dodge with the ball carrier. Clearing the people you put inside the cage will tie up more of his players, which means the turn after, his cage will be weaker...so you repeat the trick with the 2nd blitzer, while using blodge at the end of the turn to retreat the first blitzer from the cage. The third turn, his players should be straggling and far looser, which is where the blitzer you just retreated might get a chance to take a 3+/4+ dodge (remove the tacklezones) for a 1d shot on the ball carrier.

As a final point, take 2d's where you can. Remember, your line-elves are the same toughness as his pestigors and rotters. If you put them down, you might get lucky and KO a couple...and if you get men up, he's really in trouble.

Hope that helps!

[Ullis]

A rookie Nurgle team with just 2 rr will struggle on defence against a faster team. I'd echo Hitonagashi and advice you to go on offence first if given the chance. Scoring in about turn 5 (2 or 3 will most likely be hard anyway since you have to run it in) will give you enough time to score on defence while leaving too little time for the Nurgle offence. In four turns it might well be that the Nurgle team has blown both rerolls already and without rerolls offence becomes a nightmare for Nurgle. You could even tempt the Nurgle player by giving him a 1-d blitz on the ball carrier (a blodge blitzer) with a few GFI's. That's guaranteed to eat a reroll.

Without rerolls his blocking game is unreliable, even if he picks up the ball he can't risk handing off and he is slow. Bog down his cage with the blodgers and linos and he has to try and make a break for it at some point or give up scoring altogether.

On offence your biggest risk is most likely getting tangled up with the beast with your ball carrier. But with a reroll you have great chances of getting free of that.

This Nurgle team has two pestigors already. IF he lost both, he'd be in issues but it's not something you can plan for really. I wouldn't bother fouling them since there's two. If he only had one, then I might risk fouling with elves.

[Viajero]

Thanks for the advice guys.

When you say that fast teams should be able to outposition Nurgle I agree, but the thing is my team average MA is 6!! Remember, no catchers. True, I have AG4 all around and I can reposition; I presume that is really what you mean. Speed though, while better than my opponent, is not a very solid advantage with my team, yet.

Regarding my defense bogging down a cage, this typically works well against bashy teams as long as elves can keep their pieces in the field AND as long as they can be repositioned every turn decently. Nurgle has a very disruptive way of preventing this last bit with the beast, who can typically entangle 2 or even 3 of you pieces if the blitz is properly done by the Nurgle player against your typical elf 2 deep column defense. Sticking a blodge piece against the carrier as Hito suggests will go a long away for preventing my defense line getting blitzed in the first place.

[dines]

Good luck with the game, I had serious problems with my dark elves against nurgle too. I'd try to pin the beast down with a journeyman and definately run the ball with a blodge carrier. And as already mentioned, switching sides are a good trick to outposition him.

[klauser]

Good luck with the game, I had serious problems with my dark elves against nurgle too. I'd try to pin the beast down with a journeyman and definately run the ball with a blodge carrier. And as already mentioned, switching sides are a good trick to outposition him.

That sums it up pretty nicely. Keep the ball on one of your Blitzers and make sure the Beast never gets close to him by feeding it with Journeymen.

[mattgslater]

Obviously, you can't expect to make too many blocks, but as much as possible go for Pests, and if you can, the Guard Rotter. Get rid of two of these three pieces early, and he'll struggle. Try to lure his Pests and/or Rotters away from the strong guys, so you can single them off, and even better, try to make him commit the Beast and Warriors to the sideline.

Offense: Carry with a Blitzer, both for the Dodge and the +MA. You can't relay near the action, on account of Disturbing presence, so you need to control the width of the pitch; you can't let him corral you. Screen formations are your friend. It's nice to keep a player posted on the back side of all your formations, so you can redirect to him if the going gets rough. If you find yourself down men, this may get harder and harder. A lot depends on the defensive line: he can tell you whether you're lining up five men for three blocks or three men for one block. Take what he gives you, and if he puts big stuff on the line, try to lure it into your backfield.

Defense: I recommend an asymmetric defense for High Elves against slow teams: tempt him to putting the Beast and/or the Block Warriors too far outside the formation. Kick is the best weapon against Nurgle, but failing that, your goal is to make him commit bodies or heavies to one sideline, so you can seal him off without massive commitment. Setting blitz-targets up three squares behind scrimmage may tempt him to blitz with a Pestigor.

– – – –|x x x – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|– – – – – – –|– x – –
– – x –|x – – x – – x|– – z –
– – – –|– – – – – – –|– – – –
– – – –|z – – x – – –|– – – –

[Smeborg]

I will venture some suggestions from the perspective of a Nurgle coach.

Nurgle like HEs (and DEs) as opponents. So expect a tough match. Be patient and do not waste your re-rolls.

Feed the Beast a rookie Lino to keep him occupied and out of the game. If the Beast ties up multiple players (e.g. 2 players without Block), dodge them away until the Beast is left with just 1 minder. Do not hesitate to use 1-die blocks or even 2-dice uphill blocks against the Beast when the moment is right. Do not obsess about him: tie him up.

Forget your Thrower, use the Dodge Blitzers to run the ball all the way. Get used to the idea that the game will be played at a slower pace than you are used to. Do not obsess about the Pestigors, but keep an eye on them and tie them up when you can.

On defense, there are 2 main methods you can use. (1) is to repeatedly assault the cage with your Dodge Blitzers (they are quite resilient, in return the Nurgle player will probably try to foul them). (2) is to pick your moment (do not wait too long) and mark every cage corner (and every opposing player within reach as well). The Nurgle cage will then collapse under its own weight (it cannot easily be re-formed). Ideally you can combine (1) and (2) to cause a big headache (collapsing cage and spilled ball).

In scrambled play on defense, you can force Nurgle to take risks that they do not want to take (mainly ball moving).

I see no good reason to Kick if you win the toss. The Nurgle offense is weak, it is not good at stalling. Better for you to get some score on the board and to get Nurgle chasing the game. If you can. And have fun, this is a sporting match-up, it can get wild.

Hope that helps.

[Viajero]

Bit of feedback after the game .

First half I decided to receive and did a text book HiE offense against Nurgle. No passes and mobility. Could even stall my TD until turn 7, which gave me the 1-0 lead at half time.

But then turn 8 I decided to do something really really stupid. The beast was left 2 tiles from the sideline and I decided that I could surf it with a Blitz and a push, because "I am worth it". Very very stupid. Obviously one of the doges failed and teh retribution was swift: one of my blodge Blitzers surfed --> dead, apo? ---> dead.

The second half I managed to sack the carrier 3 times but unable to steal the ball away which led eventually to a "in extremis" TD in 16 for the 1-1.

If I had had my Blitzer for the second half I am sure things would have turned out much much different and I was in for the win.

Thanks for the advice! Bottom line? Dont do stupid things.

[pekkar]

I think it's important to separate your rolls from the decisions that lead to those rolls. From prioritizing actions and weighing them against potential rewards. There's no error of judgement here I think.

You saw a chance to maybe play the second half without his Beast. The worst you should reasonably expect from failing one of the rolls along the way is a turnover. The action wasn't any more unnecessary than anything you did to deal with opponents in second half. If you wanted to avoid every chance of SI or death, you could rarely do anything at all. Good luck rolling with Nuffle's punches.

[Smeborg]

Viajero - you should be pleased with the result. I don't think I ever had anything other than a win with Nurgle against HEs and DEs.

[Uldreg]

Getting that beast of the field... interesting. Good since its a fee inj roll. I probably would have tried it myself. The end of half thing is key, even if he gets injured or KO'd straight 50% chance he is back. You are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Early in a half its gold, turn 8 its fools gold almost.

[mattgslater]

I always score on T8 if I can. I never mess around. I've learned that one the hard way.

[Smeborg]

Viajero - one thing to consider is that when you put a Regen player in the dugout (e.g. the Beast), it has a high chance of coming back (50% if KOs or CASd, 100% if stunned). In this case, even if you had managed to surf him, he had a 19 in 24 chance of coming back (say 79%). If you add a dodge attempt (5/6), a Foul Appearance roll (5/6) and a 2-dice block (8/9 plus 1 in 12 chance of a both down), you have at best a 13% chance of keeping the Beast in the dugout (say 1 in eight). Probably not as attractive as it might appear at first sight.

As a Nurgle coach, I am happy when opponents gang up on the Beast. I did warn you not to obsess about him.

All the best.