Big guys now 'compulsory'?

[Chris]

I've noticed that with the possible exception of Skaven every team gets its big guy, if not immediately then as soon as possible. The Rat on the other hand seems to be too pricey for people to always go for. So was this intended? Does anyone not use big guys with sucess?

[inkpwn]

A lot of agile teams don't bother, I'm not using my kroxigor on my slann team, slows them down. I know nazgob doesn't like using one his wood elfs and I have seen orcs roll without the troll and chaos dwarfs often don't bother with the minotaur.

[Chris]

So is it then the 'good' teams don't need one while the 'weaker' teams like humans do?

[Digger Goreman]

Most big guys are loners and IF they mess up on the field, it can be catastrophic.... Some teams don't need the help (WE, Dwarves, Orcs & CD) while stunties won't even survive well with them if all does go right....

Some teams don't have them.... (I'd like an Undead Troll added to the Necros just to be able to use my "Deth and Taxxis" mini.... )

Wild Animals don't lose their tackle zones but are a pain to move should they find themselves alone... so they take up an inordinate amount of blitzes when maybe they shouldn't: two chances to fail per turn....

[ulvardar]

Probably humans, skavens and lizards are the one that should get it. No other team improves greatly from a big guy.

Orcs, Chaos Dwarves and Chaos don't need troll or mino to maim effectively (although chaos adds more fun to the carnage with it). Woodies don't need at all the tree, i've played amazing teams with no oak on them.

On the other hand, big guys are mandatory for stunties and Pact.

[Chris]

I would have thought getting a troll is night compulsory for Orcs. Its regens, its dead cheap and sits on the line quite happily. Ok so you might not want to activate it but I couldn't imagine not having a troll and a goblin to threaten the ott? For CD's the Mino gives them a bit of muscle to free up the bull centaurs surely?

[mattgslater]

What I've seen:

Start or hire ASAP
Chaos Pact Ogre
Chaos Pact Troll
Goblin Troll x2
Halfling Treeman x2
Khemri Tomb Guardian x4 (maybe 3 to start, buying one ASAP)
Nurgle Beast
Undead Mummy x2
Underworld Troll
Ogre Ogre x6

Take, maybe not immediately
Human Ogre
Lizardman Kroxigor
Norse Yhetee
Orc Troll
Wood Elf Treeman

Take or leave
Chaos Minotaur
Chaos Dwarf Minotaur
Chaos Pact Minotaur
Skaven Rat Ogre
Slann Kroxigor

[Lunchab1es]

What I've seen:

Start or hire ASAP
Chaos Pact Ogre
Chaos Pact Troll
Goblin Troll x2
Halfling Treeman x2
Khemri Tomb Guardian x4 (maybe 3 to start, buying one ASAP)
Nurgle Beast
Undead Mummy x2
Underworld Troll
Ogre Ogre x6

Take, maybe not immediately
Human Ogre
Lizardman Kroxigor
Norse Yhetee
Orc Troll
Wood Elf Treeman

Take or leave
Chaos Minotaur
Chaos Dwarf Minotaur
Chaos Pact Minotaur
Skaven Rat Ogre
Slann Kroxigor

Agree, mostly. Interesting to note that the Norse Yhetee is the only frenzy/WA piece that doesn't reside in the lowest category, and the Slann Krox is the only non frenzy/WA that does.

[Gaixo]

I think Matt's list reflects what I've seen, except switch the rat ogre with the WE treeman. I almost never see that treeman.

[Chris]

I've seen the treeman as a mercenary inducement. Otherwise looks like quite a good list (I've seen the rat ogre a bit more, can't remember if its a mercenary or not though).

[RogueThirteen]

I think the only two Big Guys who are taken as soon as possible (counting only nega-trait Big Guys and overlooking Goblins, Halflings, and Chaos Pact whose strength IS their Big Guys) are the Lizard's Krox and Nurgle's Beast. Lizards need the guy to have one less skink on the pitch and prehensile tail helps against their biggest weakness - dodgey teams. Same with Nurgle, it's one less rotter and helps shut down the agile opponents somewhat.


Next most common probably is Ogre on the humans, but I think that's less because humans are sub-par and 'need' their Big Guy, but more because humans typically have tons of cash with cheap positionals and cheap rerolls, so they can usually opt for the ogre relatively soon into development without much penalty.

[mattgslater]

I never see Orc teams over 1800 without a Troll. The only time you ever see Humans without an Ogre is in young formats, like tournaments or really early development in league formats. Humans want to be bashy, but need the Ogre's ST to make it work. Trolls are great on Orc teams, because they play into the team's strengths.

Yhetees are different from the other WAs because of the team's skill access. Norse are certain to have all-Block or almost all-Block teams, so running that no-Block Frenzy guy is not so much a liability. Chaos and Norse also have the best one-skill combos (barring doubles) of all big guys, but Chaos are strong enough to convince themselves they don't need a big guy to hit hard, while Norse need all the ST they can get.

I kind of agree with other posters on the Treeman: he's kind of on the line. But the bulk of FUMBBL WEs eventually end up with one.

[swilhelm73]

The Chaos Minotaur is the most interesting I think.

He is expensive, AV8, and horns/WA on a team full of horns. But...the skill access means you can have an ST5, Frenzy, MB, Claw, Tentacles piece at third level. He can win games for you against either bash teams with the Claw or agile teams with the Tentacles. On the other hand, he can lose games for you.

[Juriel]

A Human team without the Ogre is a bad Human team.

[Hitonagashi]

I played Underworld without a troll.

Admittedly, I've since retired the team, due to drawing 3 horrible killer chaos/nurgle in a row (24 casualties in 3 games \o/), but I had a lot of success...managed a 10 game winning streak.

In TV matched environments, which would you prefer, a troll, or 7 skills on your blitzers?

I personally never start without a Krox on lizzies, but if I do(can understand the extra RR), then he's my first buy.

I almost never see the Mino on Chaos teams in TV matched play. Think I agree there, he's just too easy to blitz down and have roll around on his back all game.

I'd also move the WE treeman into take or leave.