Cool One-Off Halfling sculpt on BB Tactics

[Giraffe]

hence why Thrudbowl is now Thrudball

WOW GW has annoyed you because of "bowl" in Thrudbowl?!!! Would they look after the organizers of the SuperBOWL after that!

You should be ok, it was only an IP violation as Thrudbowl rhymes with Bloodbowl...

IP law has to be pedantic, by it's very nature it's a line drawn in the sand with a "cross this line you DIE" sort of attitude...

I would avoid IP challenges if I saw them coming quicker than the smelly guy who always sits next to me on the train...

Even TFF has suffered due to IP (used to be TBB)

[Giraffe]

And I know from painful experience with GW (hence why Thrudbowl is now Thrudball) that if IP is NOT challenged then you lose your IP rights...

So Carl would HAVE to make an IP challenge whether he wanted to or not, or else lose his Ip rights...

Are you sure? You lose trademarks is you do not sue, enforcement is compulsory. You don't lose copyright if you don't sue, enforcement is selective. All of them is under Intellectual Property umbrella name, but they are not the same, they cover different things and have different rules.

And then, any big business will smash you with hazy letters, and see if you want to go to court, even if they know they are in shaky ground, because they've more money and they prefer a "shot first, ask later" approach.

Sounds like you have a stronger grasp on the finite legalities than I have, and GW weren't heavy handed about it, they asked nicely and I complied (costing me a fair bit in time, new domain names, etc, but ce-la-vie)

I don't think Carl would / could challenge, but Heresy might well do, and I don't think willy would want to go down that route. I don't think Carl would give his permission to another manufacturer either, and I'm sure Willy is respectful enough of IP to follow protocols and get turned down politely by Carl in a few months time when he gets chance to check his probably 500 emails... . I think some of what willy has said has been lost in translation, both he and Carl seem (to me at least) thoroughly nice chaps, neither would normally want to even inconvenience the other with this...

My only concern is things like this may make Carl reconsider his legal position over thrudball, and perhaps even of letting Thrud be our GCN Club's Mascot. Neither would be the same without that hapless, muscle-bound, axe-wielding pinhead...plus I think my heart just might break too (sad, I know, but thrudball IS my life)...

Fingers crossed that this blows over soon...

[Giraffe]

Hey guys. Long time no post! Sorry.

As to this figure, clearly it's Thrud, and Thrud exists as an established set of iconography in his own right these days, with graphic novels, comics etc, so there's no getting around it with 'oh but Conan looks like this, as Conan doesn't. So, this is Thrud and Carl Critchlow owns the rights to him and gets final say on figures based on Thrud. I am a license holder, but ultimately it's Carl's baby, end of.

I just wanted to point out though, that back when I first did a Thrud miniature, a stern warning was passed down to me via my remaining contacts at GW (people placed in The Know) that if I ever did a fantasy Football Thrud of any kind, GW would lovingly tear me a legal new one instantly, no two ways about it. They were, it was alleged, 'just waiting for you to do it'. Anyone attempting to market that sort of figure would be well advised to watch out.

The story I was told was that GW had a fair bit of wrangling over the rights to Thrud with Carl and it was established that Carl did indeed own the rights to Thrud, which is why the GW one was called Thrudd instead and the rights for that specific figure, Blood Bowl Thrudd, are partly owned by GW and Carl. GW therefore have every right to come after anyone who does a FF version of Thrud that looks like the GW Thrudd, especially if that figure has the same proportions in terms of huge arms and wrong size of head like theirs did. (Thrud has a pin head and anatomy that means he can't actually cross his arms etc, it's a crazy thing to sculpt as Carl cheats when he draws him and a lot of the poses he makes in the comic he wouldn't actually be able to do in real life due to muscles getting in the way)

Cheers

Andy Foster

Director
Heresy Miniatures Ltd

PS Also sorry about no new Deathball figures for ages. Suggestions@heresyminiatures.com for your angry requests etc! If I get enough I may relent and do the most popular request.

How I LOVE GW so...NOT!

Now I know why GW minis cost so much..they actually have a team of IP lawyers WAITING to sue Anyone who makes a Bloodbowl Thrud!

Hey, surely it would still be ok to CONVERT a mini into a bloodbowling Thrud though, wouldn't it?

Has anyone ever done this?

Would LOVE to see any pics you might have...

Sounds to me like the mini will most likely be reheaded to be "least thrudlike" (thrudballer joke, sorry)

[GalakStarscraper]

Something that I could see working is to cut the currently proposed head off it and give 2 other variant heads instead. One with say a fur hat, shouty face and gap teeth ala Schwarzenegger's Conan (call that head Mighty Guz) and another head to look more over sized Giant or Ogre like. With a model that size, I see it as a Str 5 mini - and possible companion to my Valkyrie Giantess.

I think this is the best plan. Cut off and permanently lose the head. Replace it with a Schwarzenegger head and a more iconic Ogre head and carry on. Given the comments by both Carl and Andy @ Heresy ... that makes the most sense to me ... anything else and Willy ends up fighting a battle over principal that will likely lose him customers.

Following Garthantash's suggestion and the figure can be saved with minimal re-work and than can be named something Parody like: Conun the Ogre Barbarian

Also I realize Willy might not be concerned about getting a C&D from GW ... but given that they directly market figures with the exact names of the stars ... I can say from experience that if they start writing a C&D over a Fantasy Football Thrud-like figure to Willy ... they will then throw in anything else that they think they can in the same letter to come after you.

Professional opinion ... take Andy's comments to heart ... stay away from this one ... there is no profit in the figure as is compared to the heart-ache it will bring the company from multiple fronts.

Tom @ Impact!

[inkpwn]

I look forward to the release of 'Durht the scandinavian'.

[willy]

Well, I hope Willy do the right thing now - ball's in their court.

I can not do anything , I put the miniature in "stand by" and have paralyzed the production .
I wanted to find out who has the IP, pay for them and to make the miniature ... but it is impossible , I want to do the right things .
Any other miniature that I can not do "version" ? I do not want to waste time and money again , everybody used Lovercraft , GW , "frankenteins" , Tolkien ... but not "thurd" , ok no problem .
I do not want to be crucified (I think Gaspez suffered too much punishment) .

[willy]

I'm just going from the conan image in my mind, which has a headband, over shoulder fur liotard thing and sword. Googled him and your right, conan does have an axe often. But yeah, anyway, more sculpts!
Love the griff, remindes me of a judge with his awesome shoulder chicken. That's a must have for me. Also recently pedro sculpted this for a different miniatures company=
http://www.teamfrog.com/index2.htm
Which would make a awesome snow troll

original that was never paid to the sculptor (Pedro Ramos) , I want buy this miniature for Willy-miniatures ...but not possible .

I look forward to the release of 'Durht the scandinavian'.

Now I'm confused, complicated the line between "right" of "not right".
I was very excited with this miniature (I have houses to give to each), not a miniature to play is a miniature for old players, nostalgic ... If you will not have the affection of the community, I do not know how to continue.

I'd rather spend time, money and love of new miniatures, "Griff", "skeleton chainsaw" and "skaven txipiroi."

[inkpwn]

I'm confused, the majority of us want a thrud miniature myself included. Its just legal issues that stop you. We don't want you to suffer the wrath of gamesworkshops legal department.
As for my other comment, I was just makeing light of the fact people were discussing the possibility of alternative heads and a different name. Seeing as the head is thruds most unique feature swapping it for an alternative means the mini would be unique enough for sale without legal worries.

[txapo]

Before anyone uses the google translator I do translate myself Poncho's words at the spanish forum,...
[quote="Poncho"]Madre mia como está el patio, una figura de 5cm estancada por conflictos de patente...

El cuerpo va de una pieza con los brazos (es casteable) lo demás es una pestaña extra con piezas alternativas y la cabeza.

Yo lo veo más fácil todavia, varias opciones de cabezas; Crom/Odin, Conan, una bowlera con casco normal e incluso ¡una de Chutulu! de nombre siempre una Ñ de por medio.

Y aclaro una cosa, la mini "aun no es de Willy" sino mia, él la tiene reservada ¿Que pasaría si la comprase una marca china?
Lo que está claro es que de momento se va a vender como churros.

Pongo la comparativa que todos me preguntan por las medidas:

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7051/p1040206n.jpg

"My god! a miniature stoped by IP issues!

The body is just one cast (arms included) the rest is just the head and some little extra alternatives.

I see many other posibilities a Crom/Odin head, Conan, one BB head with a BB Helmet or even a Chutulu head, for the name always with a Ñ on it!!

And I want to make clear on thing the miniature is only mine, Willy has got it simply reserved What would happend if a chinese brand will buy it?
For me is clear that whoever releases it is going to be a top seller.

And I put the comparation because every body is asking me abouth the measures."

[Norse]

I'll stay away from the legal discussions because it's really not my area of expertise

but what I will say is that there are certain key elements to Thrud which are uniquely his.. not just the proportions of the head to the shoulders, thighs and arms, but also the style of helmet, the belt buckle especially, the bandaged up boots.. from my perspective a head swap alone is not really enough.

and strangely, I have never thought of Thrud as being in any way a copy of Conan.. I have never read the books or comics, so my knowledge of Conan is based purely on the awful movies, but I remember him looking more like an Iron Maiden front-man than a pin-headed barbarian...

[Giraffe]

I'll stay away from the legal discussions because it's really not my area of expertise

but what I will say is that there are certain key elements to Thrud which are uniquely his.. not just the proportions of the head to the shoulders, thighs and arms, but also the style of helmet, the belt buckle especially, the bandaged up boots.. from my perspective a head swap alone is not really enough.

and strangely, I have never thought of Thrud as being in any way a copy of Conan.. I have never read the books or comics, so my knowledge of Conan is based purely on the awful movies, but I remember him looking more like an Iron Maiden front-man than a pin-headed barbarian...

Imagine - Arnie as Iron Maiden Front Man:

"Bring yor Daughter, Bring yor Daughter to Da Slaughter, I'll be Back, I'll be Back, I'll be Back!"

[Buggrit]

Imagine - Arnie as Iron Maiden Front Man:

"Bring yor Daughter, Bring yor Daughter to Da Slaughter, I'll be Back, I'll be Back, I'll be Back!"

LMAO - Cheers for that Frank

[bound for glory]

than why does'nt herasy make a fantasy football thrud? seems carl put the thumb on grannys, and now ditto with willys awsome looking mini...why is'nt there a ff version? just askin"...

[bound for glory]

and why was grannys version pulled? thats a nice figure. i doubt anyone would know the name of that character without white dwarf. just sayin'.

[GalakStarscraper]

than why does'nt herasy make a fantasy football thrud?

Because Heresy is a company does the right thing. They have a proper license with Carl to produce Thrud figures and Carl has said he has an agreement with GW to not make an FF version ... so that means Carl cannot give permission to Heresy to create one and since Andy has business morals he would not create an FF Thrud without Carl's permission.

seems carl put the thumb on grannys, and now ditto with willys awsome looking mini

AS WAS HIS RIGHT TO DO SO

and why was grannys version pulled? thats a nice figure.

Because despite being not the greatest company on Earth ... they don't delibrate steal another man's IP. The figure could only be sold as long as GW had permission from Carl to create Thrud figures. They lost that permission so the figure was pulled.

This happens all the time in the business world ... folks have rights to produce a concept ... they lose the right for whatever reason ... which means the product is done. It is fairly common.

Tom

Tom