Cool One-Off Halfling sculpt on BB Tactics

[bound for glory]

i don't care...i have 2 gw thruds and thats good enough for me. anyone who still wants them can get them on evilbay. i understand carl does'nt want anyone but andy to make the figure. having said that, the figure shown looks great. oh well, gotta love the politics of toy soldiers, right?

[Giraffe]

than why does'nt herasy make a fantasy football thrud? seems carl put the thumb on grannys, and now ditto with willys awsome looking mini...why is'nt there a ff version? just askin"...

The reason Heresy haven't made a Fantasy Football Thrud is due to Carl's agreement with GW on the matter(see earlier posts) ...

...no one wants to push a stick into the GW Legal wasps nest due to (unofficial but plausible) rumours GW will definately make an IP issue over it...

Who's Granny? Is this your Granny? I don't think Carl is much of a Granny-Thumber ...

Haven't seen Granny's Mini, have you a pic? I'm curious now...

[thrysstan]

i am a big fan of thrud of the early times and i understand all things said before.

But, if you have to pay rights to everybody for adapting existing icons to the miniature and/or the RPG world, none of the companys we all know could have exist. citadel, games workshop later, rackham, asmodee (helldorado), everybody took inspirations of pre existing icons. the arthurian cycle, Conan, lord of the rings, cthulhu, dracula, frankenstein, eternal champions, and without authors like tolkien, moorcock, howard, lovecraft, burroughs, leiber and others the world of warhammer and a lot of others just don't be as theay are. The khorne demon is the balrog, the grey magician is gandalf, the bretonnians came from the arthurian legend, the dark elves are a mix from moorcock's melniboneans...the exemples are infinite, and nobody never complains !

Now as an author myself i really understand the concept of "rights" for a creation, but if today you sculpt a vampire or a barbarian with long black hair and a sword, nobody is going to tell you " hey did you pay rights to howard ?". When GW sculpt a dwarf exactly as they are in the LOTR books nobody says nothing as well.

To go further, blood bowl is an IP, it has rights, it is a GW game. but nobody conplains that small companys like impact, willy greebo... offers us beautifull miniatures, and stlll make this game alive. you can hide behind other games names, all of them with bowl, ball or blood, but everybody here plays BLOOD BOWL with those miniatures ! don't lie to yourselves ! and all the companys making FF minis order scuplts that can be used AS.

The fact is that in this case, thrud is really specific, and some of you knows the author, but the caracter don't pass to be an inspiration of an inspiration...but if a brand have made an army of musculate barbarians with little heads, nobody would be surprised or shocked today.

Today a Thrud fantasy football miniature can't be produced for X reasons you mention, so i really don't see the big problem of willy or another company, sculpting a "hommage" to this caracter dressed as a fantasy footballer.
not thrud, not blood bowl, just a difform barbarian playing some violent game with balls.

i love this community, i buy everyday miniatures from all the companys i mentionned and i think it is great like that.

keep going and let me buy this barbarian to go with all my other "non blood bowl miniatures" i already get.

best regards

(and sorry for the poor english i get )

[Darkson]

Haven't seen Granny's Mini, have you a pic? I'm curious now...

http://www.collecting-citadel-miniature ... oup003.jpg (bottom right of pic)

@thrysstan - homage is one thing, blatant copy is another.

[txapo]

Poncho has just put his next job at his blog and has been very nice asking me to name it!!

So let forget about barbarians whith tiny heads and admire: Patxi Silensio "Kalimotxo"

"Patxi" aka in Basque for Francisco
"Silensio" basque mispronunciation of silencio (Silence in Spainsh)
and "kalimotxo" is his personal touch to my suggestion red wine mixed up with cocacola, XX's century basque invention very popular for basque country youth!

As you can inmagine some one with that name is someone with a big mouth who knows a lot about BB (from the safe side of the pitch).

As final bit looks like he is going to ad him a choice of a basque hat for the head!!

http://ramos-gallery.blogspot.com/

[Virral]

To go further, blood bowl is an IP, it has rights, it is a GW game. but nobody conplains that small companys like impact, willy greebo... offers us beautifull miniatures, and stlll make this game alive. you can hide behind other games names, all of them with bowl, ball or blood, but everybody here plays BLOOD BOWL with those miniatures ! don't lie to yourselves ! and all the companys making FF minis order scuplts that can be used AS.

The argument being made here at least is that Stealing from People We Don't Like (e.g. GW) = Good, Stealing from People We Like (e.g. Carl) = Bad.

[AllyRdr]

The argument being made here at least is that Stealing from People We Don't Like (e.g. GW) = Good,

hereafter referred to as "sticking it to the man"

[thrysstan]

for me nowone is "stealing", everybody is "paying hommage" with theyr passion to things, books, icons, caracters, storys and universes they like.

gw, karl, impact, willy, confrontation, privateer press or even heresy making "hurn" predator and nobody scream they are thiefs and me neither.

[Giraffe]

Haven't seen Granny's Mini, have you a pic? I'm curious now...

http://www.collecting-citadel-miniature ... oup003.jpg (bottom right of pic)

@thrysstan - homage is one thing, blatant copy is another.

@ Simon So GW - Granny? I'm STILL confused...Why Granny?????

[Giraffe]

for me nowone is "stealing", everybody is "paying hommage" with theyr passion to things, books, icons, caracters, storys and universes they like.

gw, karl, impact, willy, confrontation, privateer press or even heresy making "hurn" predator and nobody scream they are thiefs and me neither.

Can my daughter "pay Homage" to one of your novels, I want her to get A*'s in creative writing!

Paying homage is fine, but if you want to actually make a production cast, it's only polite to first ensure you've not 'Ip'ssed someone off in the process...

...and considering the effort it must take to make such a mini, surely an IP search must preclude modelling...

...but I think in this case the mini really was too similar to be anything other than a (probably subconscious) copy of thrud...and lord only knows I've seen enough Thrud in my time...even the wife dresses as him when I've been good

The main problem I see here is that it's SO difficult to come up with (and be brave enough to risk marketing) a NEW concept for miniatures nowadays...it seems more and more "seemslike" models are appearing...

I'm still trying to get someone to model me up a Halfling Death Ball called Belly Smalls for thrudball, which at least I think is unique"ish", but even that kind of borrows concepts from (a) the deathroller, (b) the bit in Killer Contracts when the wizard-controlled orb rolls across the pitch killing people and (c) Nikes "Belly's Gonna Get Ya!" advert....

...I also think halfling teams should at least be more competitive, and need either Shirelings (who are better than the average Fling) or something (two elf throwers? a Few Dryads? Who knows)...

....If these figures are really meant as a homage then by all means make them but then donate them to a worthy non profit cause ...I'm sure there are plenty about, but for the life of me I can't think of any ....

[spubbbba]

I can see why Willy would be confused by this.

Thrud is not a very well know character, most people in the wargaming community would only have heard from him thanks to Frank’s efforts with ThrudBowl. It would be easy to see him as another old GW star player such as Withergrasp, Frankenstein or Hoshi Komi. It is a bit of a double standard that nobody blinks an eye at models very closely copying GW designs but some start forming a lynch mob at the thought of copying a character that heavily borrows from Conan.

I have to say that I really dislike some of the companies that release blatant rip offs of GW 40K and fantasy models. Not so much because they are taking money away from GW but because I’d far rather they released their own unique models rather than low quality rips offs. GW does borrow heavily from other sources but usually combines different elements or develops their own unique look to it over time. Plus as others have stated all creative aspects borrow from other sources, it is questionable if anything is truly unique.

The odd thing about IP and copyright rules is that they vary from country to country and have lots of grey areas. If your character is very successful it can form an archetype which almost makes it fair game. The classic conan style barbarian, heavy drinking bearded dwarf and effete, haughty elf are all so common now that you can’t really copyright them, only specific unique aspects.

The BB model linked in the photo doesn’t have an axe and his head seems larger than the other Thrud models so is not that similar to Willy’s very really, though his looks a lot more like the other Thrud models.

[Darkson]

Thrud is not a very well know character, most people in the wargaming community would only have heard from him thanks to Frank’s efforts with ThrudBowl. It would be easy to see him as another old GW star player such as Withergrasp, Frankenstein or Hoshi Komi.

Only the younger generation - I think of the comic strips first, the BB Star second.
Still not an excuse.

[spubbbba]

You mean the comic strip featured in White Dwarf between 1983 and 1988? So 25-30 years ago.

I’ve been playing GW games for over 22 years and have hundreds of their novels, magazines and journals and thousands of their miniatures and even I am only vaguely aware of Thrud.

I think you are expecting a bit much for someone outside the UK to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of a very obscure character associated with BB. And weather or not they are a lackey to the eeeevil empire or a plucky artist who briefly associated with them before they turned to the dark side.

I think Willy has made the right decision from a commercial point of view to avoid alienating his fans. Whether it is morally correct is debatable in my opinion as there is a fair amount of hypocrisy in condoning IP theft as long as it from a company you dislike.

[lucasluckydelux]

It's quite painful that you keep talking about other subject in this topic about the best halfling sculpt ever made. Everytime I check for new posts this one appears and I think maybe someone has decided to cast it and I realize with pain that you are still throwing shit on Willy about the damned Thrudd

[Giraffe]

It's quite painful that you keep talking about other subject in this topic about the best halfling sculpt ever made. Everytime I check for new posts this one appears and I think maybe someone has decided to cast it and I realize with pain that you are still throwing shit on Willy about the damned Thrudd

It is a nice Fling, but it's only a fling at the end of the day ...hard to get excited about a player in a team that you'll seldom even draw with...

But though it's a nice fling it is to my mind just another slightly generic miniature ...

After all, how many fling teams is the average bloodbowl coach going to buy? They are not even much fun to play...

plus most of us have at least one team for every race, so to get me to buy another they've gotta STAND OUT

I'm amazed your throwing comment got past the entendre police by the way I for one don't believe the thrud/not thrud model (apologies for bringing Thrud up AGAIN) were purposefully made to look like anyone, and would never fling dung it's unhygenic, but anyone who knows Thrud can see the subliminal influence that the image has had on the sculptor. The bandages boots are unique to thrud (and maybe mummies perhaps). The impossible Triangulation of the Upper torso...and I'd admit only those of a certain age know thrud, but the love that those who know him carry for him compares to bloodbowl itself, cold beer or other best friends...anyway, I digress, back to flings...

At least if a new fling team comes out that LOOK different (I think of PUGs Bowler Hatted Flings) then you've got something unique to cherish (in your dead and injured box).

Perhaps the solution is more Racial Choices in Bloodbowl (bring back Fimirs! no? ), then sculptors would have free reign to create new and exciting models ...or maybe Themed teams (Pirates, Thieves, slaves, etc). Or better rules for flings that gave you a fair (or at least a reasonable) chance of winning with them. After all, Frodo did save middle earth (or was it gollum)...

...this would also give the LRB rules committee the headache of game-balancing the rules for the new teams with the current LRB...sorry geggster...heh heh