Fumbled pick up and re-rolls

[daloonieshaman]

The text I quoted only says the Action ends immediately. It doesn't say the turn ends immediately. Is there some other text you think supersedes that?

yep every single action that ends a turn in that specific description. Catch, Pickup, knock down, fumble, foul, GFI, interceptions, and of course legally scoring a TD.

[DoubleSkulls]

Each player in a team may perform one Action per turn. The Actions that may be performed are described below. When all of the players in a team have performed an Action then the turn ends and the opposing coach is allowed to take a turn.
...
Normally, a turn only ends when all of the players in the team have performed an Action. However, certain events cause the turn to end before all of the players have taken an Action. These events are called turnovers. The following events cause a turnover:
...
A coach that suffers a turnover is not allowed to take any further Actions that turn, and any Action being taken ends immediately even if it was only partially completed. Make armour and injury rolls for players that were knocked down, and if the ball was dropped then roll to see where it bounces to normally. Stunned players should be turned face up, and then the opposing coach may start to take his turn.

To me its quite clear. The turnover stops any other player taking an action and causes the current action to end immediately. Since you can't take any more actions you go into the normal end of turn routine (turning over stunned players etc). The restriction on using rerolls is to the turn, not within an action too. So I'm struggling to find anything in the rules that I think contradicts my position. Can you see anything?

[GalakStarscraper]

Dennis ... I'm agreeing with Ian's interpretation here. I see the action as having ended ... not the turn.

Tom

[daloonieshaman]

Dennis ... I'm agreeing with Ian's interpretation here. I see the action as having ended ... not the turn.

Tom

I am only quoting you ohh 7 or so times in the rules when it states that the turn ends immediately.

• Picking up the ball pg 8
  Tackle zones (dodge) pg8
  Knockdowns pg10
  scoring in your opponents turn pg15
  GFI pg20
  Interceptions pg22
  Fumbles pg22
  Foul pg23

But hey if you want to change the way you wrote the the rules it's all good, just be clear in saying so.

[DoubleSkulls]

Fair enough... I'd say the specific wording on how to handle a turnover ought to supersede the individual rules (they aren't meant to override it) and if I'd realised I'd have removed those sentences.

[TalonBay]

Dennis ... I'm agreeing with Ian's interpretation here. I see the action as having ended ... not the turn.

Tom

So, I fumble the pick-up and his action ends but not the turn? Does this mean I can then use team re-rolls on further catch attempts and even move other players until something causes my turn to end? So a fumbled pickup is not a turnover if it's eventually caught by one of my players?

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

[Darkson]

Fair enough... I'd say the specific wording on how to handle a turnover ought to supersede the individual rules (they aren't meant to override it) and if I'd realised I'd have removed those sentences.

However, we've been told repeatedly that specific rules override general rules (eg you cannot reroll an AV roll - PO allows you to reroll AV).

[dode74]

I believe the wording of that one is that you cannot use a team reroll to reroll scatter, distance, direction, armour, injury or casualty rolls.

[DoubleSkulls]

Dennis ... I'm agreeing with Ian's interpretation here. I see the action as having ended ... not the turn.

Tom

So, I fumble the pick-up and his action ends but not the turn? Does this mean I can then use team re-rolls on further catch attempts and even move other players until something causes my turn to end? So a fumbled pickup is not a turnover if it's eventually caught by one of my players?

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

Its very clear you cannot take another action.

[Darkson]

I believe the wording of that one is that you cannot use a team reroll to reroll scatter, distance, direction, armour, injury or casualty rolls.

My post is the argument Tom gave in another thread (which I found in a search the other day for something else, and can't recall now), and was ONE example.

[Darkson]

However, I'm going to say I've changed my mind, and you can use a TRR (even though it feels "wrong") as in many other discussions we've come to the conclusion that after a Turnover, your turn doesn't end until you've finished all the other stuff (AV/Inj rolls, scatter etc), and DLS agrees with me:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31885#p565776

In rereading the rules on page 7 a light came on

So no, your stuff does not happen AFTER your turn ends but during the process of ending your turn

[daloonieshaman]

However, I'm going to say I've changed my mind, and you can use a TRR (even though it feels "wrong") as in many other discussions we've come to the conclusion that after a Turnover, your turn doesn't end until you've finished all the other stuff (AV/Inj rolls, scatter etc), and DLS agrees with me:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31885#p565776

In rereading the rules on page 7 a light came on

So no, your stuff does not happen AFTER your turn ends but during the process of ending your turn

Actually in light of what you pointed out...

The specific items that override the basic rule take precedence.

so, Does a specific description over ride basic rules? or do we roll a d6 every single time

[Darkson]

So when does the scatter happen?

[daloonieshaman]

So when does the scatter happen?

the same time a wizard can happen, after your turn but before your opponents turn
it is a dead ball.

[Darkson]

So when do I use a wizard? Before the scatter? After the scatter?

Nope, I'm in "ball comes to rest before end of turn" camp.