New Nurgle team

[Hitonagashi]

Tentacles on the warrior: I thought that the skill was only great on players with ST5? Isn't it subpar on ST4? Same, in your playbook you should back it up with some math to prove it really is good.

I'll leave the rest to Smeborg, but 2 things
a) If you really want to find out more, the latter half of the 90 page thread is arguing slayer vs stymie .
b) Think of Tentacles like this: ST 4 tents on ST 3 player is about a 55% chance of breaking free...while that's quite high, every player that has it turns any elves they mark into AG 2.5 for dodging away! (albeit one that doesn't turn over).

[narg]

a) If you really want to find out more, the latter half of the 90 page thread is arguing slayer vs stymie .

I know, I vaguely skimmed over all that but it's just really too long, I'd really prefer to have the strategy explained in two or three clear paragraphs, which is why I'm looking forward to the playbook.

[narg]

Random thought - if the Beast of Nurgle is so good and if pushing players in its tackle zone is so effective, wouldn't it be interesting to take Grab as an early skill on warriors?

I absolutely don't know whether it works, I've never used Grab, I've never played a Beast of Nurgle and I've never seen anyone do this combo...

[Ullis]

Random thought - if the Beast of Nurgle is so good and if pushing players in its tackle zone is so effective, wouldn't it be interesting to take Grab as an early skill on warriors?

I absolutely don't know whether it works, I've never used Grab, I've never played a Beast of Nurgle and I've never seen anyone do this combo...

It's a good idea but not effective enough to sacrifice a warrior skill, let alone an early skill, on Grab.

Also, JimmyF should try a stymie style nurgle team. At least for the surprise it would give his opponents.

[narg]

It's a good idea but not effective enough to sacrifice a warrior skill, let alone an early skill, on Grab.

Fair enough.

How about Frenzy on Pestigors or even on Rotters if they somehow manage to make it to the second skill?
It would help to herd opponents towards the Beast and it has a lot of other useful functions: nearly as good as tackle VS blodge, changes the opponent's positioning on the sidelines etc.

[spubbbba]

I think the advantage of the stymie style for Nurgle is that you already have quite a few of the required skills in the shape of FA and disturbing presence on the warriors and beast as well as tents on the beast. They you just need to sprinkle some SF and tents on the warriors.

Tents on ST4 is not amazing but is quite useful for stopping ST2 agile players since otherwise they will run rings around your slow team. The warriors don’t have to worry about RS so will be a little more reliable and 2 extra tents players is only 40K extra TV and very useful when facing agile teams and not awful against ST3 hybrid players or other bashers.

The key with the killer build is to not go too overboard. Far too many coaches focus only on causing casualties and don’t know what to do on the odd occasion they lose the cas battle or they just can’t take out the other team’s players. If you have some reliable ball handling and a couple of other utility skills such as tackle and guard it can have a far greater impact than the little TV outlay would suggest.

[narg]

By the way here's the build I planned to make. I think that my build is a great classic, defined by its complete lack of originality, apart from the roadblock Pestigor who is optional anyway:
- One or two Pestigor slayers: block, mighty blow, piling on, claw, frenzy, tackle. Six skills should be possible for a slayer, as unless he dies he should be by far the most experienced player on the team. The order may be changed (tackle as second skill for example if there are lots of elves).
- One or two Pestigor ball carriers, depending on how many roll doubles: dodge, sure hands, block. These three skills are the most important ones, then if he skills up further he can take fluffy skills, such as two heads, extra arms or big hand.
- Maybe a roadblock Pestigor, but he would be the last one I develop. Block, Tackle, Prehensile tail. He's really just a back-up that could be turned into a ball carrier or a slayer if one of them dies.
- Nurgle warriors: block, mighty blow, guard. I don't really expect them to skill up much more than that, if somehow they do then I'd say one claw, one tentacles, one tackle for example. This seems to be the main difference with Hitonogashi's build, who takes tentacles first. I'm treating them like black orcs: block first for reliability, then mighty blow to speed up progression. Guard is then needed, if only for survival against other bashy teams. If a lot of players on the team already have block then you can give one of them mighty blow first.
- Rotters: wrestle, fend, maybe one with claw or frenzy as second skill. Definitely a dirty player as well, but only once I have 13 or 14 players, fouling when you only have 11 players is reckless.
- Beast: stand firm, guard, block on a double. If the best way to play the beast is to not play it then getting to 16SPPs will already be a challenge!

The key with the killer build is to not go too overboard.

As you can see it's not a full-on killy team, just one or two slayers and mighty blow on the warriors to help them skill up. I wouldn't mind giving stand firm and tentacles to the players but it would come after that so it would be very long term.

And as you can see there are major differences with Smeborg's build here...

[spubbbba]

As you can see it's not a full-on killy team, just one or two slayers and mighty blow on the warriors to help them skill up. I wouldn't mind giving stand firm and tentacles to the players but it would come after that so it would be very long term.

And as you can see there are major differences with Smeborg's build here...

Yeah, I’d call yours the “standard” build. I'm not sure how effective that is at mid TV in crp.

Guard and SF on a roadblock big guy, Block, Guard, MB on low AG and MA blocker types and wrestle/DP on worthless fodder.

It’s how you build the Pestigors that really define the team as they are so versatile being your runners, blitzers, safety or even catcher if you build them that way.

This was along the lines I built my team on Cyanide but I went for a more LRB4 style so the spp’s were evenly spread where possible. I did find it a struggle against teams with a couple of killers as they could do me more damage and I couldn’t really outrun them. So if I had to do it over again I’d probably max out spp’s on 1 Pestigor give him Block, MB, claw and them PO.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Also, JimmyF should try a stymie style nurgle team. At least for the surprise it would give his opponents.

Hehe I don't plan on surprising people with easy wins!
To be fair to Smeborg I can see where he is coming from wanting a challenge and an enjoyable different game for both sides etc but the killer build just blows the stymie build out of the water when it comes to competitive high TV games.
Carnis and I both like Tentacles on NWs, but need a bit of clawpomb in the team first I think.

[Porkus_Maximus]

I suppose my only criticism with the Stymie build is that it doesn't take much advantage of the mutation access... most players are going to be taking AT LEAST 3 general/strength skills before they think about mutations and they either take forever to reach that point or they die before they get there. Then again FA/DP are the best mutations for stymie and you've already got 5 players with those skills so everything else is gravy, I always feel like the mutation skills are under used but then again Nurgle isn't exactly the best team to be trying out whacky skill combinations.

Here's a thought... lets pretend your warriors get to 51spp and they've got block/stand firm/guard, you're in a league that's bash heavy but playing agility/ST3 teams isn't completely out of the quesiton. Which mutation do you go for; prehensile tail or tentacles? Assuming your opponent wants to dodge away and doesn't just want to hit you in the face, tentacles forces them to roll more dice but prehensile tail increases the odds of turnovers, potentially injuring whoever fails the dodge as an added bonus. Of course you've got to get there first... and since I have a warrior that took 36 games to earn 6 spp I know how long it can take.

[Smeborg]

Porkus - as you surmise, the stymie style is based on re-inforcing the mutations that Nurgle start with, rather than seeking other early mutations. If you want a team that like to pick early mutations, may I suggest Underworld?

I have thought long and hard about P-Tail, but feel it is not quite good enough to take on the Nurgle team. P-Tail seems to me to go better on faster ST3 and ST2 players, Tentacles on slower ST4 and ST5 players. Furtthermore, P-Tail seems to want to combine with Tackle and/or Diving Tackle to be truly effective against high AG players. Thus it strikes me as something of a skill sink. P-Tail does not work against Leap, whereas Tentacles does (the only skill to do so, in fact). Stymie is about building a whole team that denies and builds frustration, whereas a team that actively seeks turnovers is a different kettle of fish.

Well done skilling up that last Warrior, I know what it's like.

All the best.

[Porkus_Maximus]

I've never played underworld, although I'm not so keen on the whole stunty direction. I usually get my mutation fix playing skaven, whenever I roll doubles on a gutter runner I'm like a kid in a sweet shop I just can't help myself.