5+5 Norse Runner

[Smeborg]

I disagree very strongly with a lot of others in this thread. Norse can and do play very well as a short passing team. Their 'natural' style is a running game, but you'll get the best out of them playing a blended running/short passing style of game.

GS - I agree with you there.

[Joemanji]

...And for gods sake don't go Guard...

(spubbba and Jimmyfantastic have made the constructive points that need making, I can't be bothered pissing into the wind any more on that)

[Smeborg]

...And for gods sake don't go Guard...

(spubbba and Jimmyfantastic have made the constructive points that need making, I can't be bothered pissing into the wind any more on that)

Joe - could you expand, as I don't understand your post. I have recommended Guard on the Runner, and counselled against NoS, yet I believe Norse are a better team with a decent passing (not catching) option. That is simply based on my experience playing Norse with and without good passing skills on at least one Thrower.

All the best.

[Aliboon]

Plus MA for me, although guard wouldn't be a bad choice as the Norse really do lack it.

I'm trying out a team without the Ulf's with a policy of firing linos who haven't doubled (i.e. become guarders) at the second skill (unless they're a specialist of some description -the kicker for example).

[GreedySmurf]

...And for gods sake don't go Guard...

(spubbba and Jimmyfantastic have made the constructive points that need making, I can't be bothered pissing into the wind any more on that)

Joe - could you expand, as I don't understand your post. I have recommended Guard on the Runner, and counselled against NoS, yet I believe Norse are a better team with a decent passing (not catching) option. That is simply based on my experience playing Norse with and without good passing skills on at least one Thrower.

All the best.

He's laughing his arse off because I recommended against taking Guard on a runner. Presumably because Norse need Guard. They do, but IMO not that much. There are better skills to give a runner on a double than Guard.

[Smeborg]

I think the Norse Runner has something of a split personality, since he has the following:

MA7 (the fastest player in the team)
AG skill access (the only player in the team with this)
Dauntless

So on the one hand, he is quite good at tasks requiring high mobility (scoring in 2 turns, blitzing the ball carrier, picking up a spilled ball), but he is also good at blocking opposing players of ST4+ (which implies being in the scrum, or at least being in contact). With the sole exception of a Blitz action taken against a player of ST4+, the Runner has to choose between these roles at any one time.

I suggest re-inforcement of either tendency through skill development is valid.

[GreedySmurf]

I think having Dauntless makes you think they have a split personality, but I personally think that's a trap. The Runners are by far the best scoring options the Norse team has, simply by dent of the +MV and AG access. And because of that I am extremely wary of putting them in the fight unnecessarily.

I just think building a runner with Guard to get him into the fight, is a total waste of the Agility access. There are already five other players on roster able to pick up Guard on a normal roll. Why waste a double on a player that is best suited to do other jobs. I would rather waste starting with Dauntless than waste the AG access. I can see the attraction in Guarding up a Runner, and I agree that they can make quite an effective Blitzers, but I just happen to think it degrades the teams attacking options unnecessarily.


I'm constantly surprised by people who seem to want to play the Norse as a one trick pony. I mean "the player that picks up the ball should be the one that scores!" What nonsense.

One of the really appealing things about the Norse roster is the versatility it allows. You can play a running game, a short passing game, or an attrition game all serviceably well. (Hell with a lucky stat up you can run a long passing game too!)

[Smeborg]

GS - I agree with you that Norse are not best played as a one trick pony running team. A good passing option works well for them (in my experience).

But I find the Runners are quite good at bashing. Their Dauntless seems particularly important at the beginning, when the team lacks strength and Guard. I also find the team quite short of Guard compared to its previous 4 Berserker version. With the current roster, it's standard (and correct, I believe) to give the SnoT M-Blow, and the Ulfs Block as first skill. That leaves only the 2 Berserkers to take Guard as first normal skill, far from ideal, as the Beserkers need Guard support from other players in order to maximise use of their Frenzy.

Further, Guard, Blodge, Sidestep, (Fend), is a good and annoying combination on the Runners, whether in the scrum or in other roles (e.g. as an escort).

I think the Runners have to live with their split personality, they have to learn to use each side at the appropriate time. Sometimes they will be used for scoring quickly, sometimes they will be deployed in or around the scrum.

All the best.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

I'm constantly surprised by people who seem to want to play the Norse as a one trick pony. I mean "the player that picks up the ball should be the one that scores!" What nonsense.

This is true of all teams unless you want to skill a guy up or when you need to score a one or two turn touchdown.
To be fair I could see taking +MA as a possibility because it is always nice to take +MA on the fastest player in your team.
"For god's sake don't go Guard" was a little extreme however!

[Ullis]

Emergency passing is something that all team's do when needed.

Norse are badly suited for passing because the only skill they start out with is Pass on an AG3 player. The throwers need Sure Hands more than Accurate and the runners need Dodge etc. more than they need Catch (or NoS or Diving Catch). So you're looking at catching that fails 1/3rd of a time or at best 1 in 9 with a team reroll. Having to rely on a team reroll is pricey and very unreliable. Even if you start taking those skills needed for the passing game (and passing up the option of making your team better at something else), then you're still always facing those 1 in 9 odds of failure.

In short, the running game is a good idea for Norse because the passing game adds uncertainty to the team with a high cost.

[Smeborg]

Ullis - in my experience, Norse only need 1 or 2 skills in order to have an adequate passing game. Accurate and possibly Safe Throw. They have a team re-roll for the catch.

All the best.

[GreedySmurf]

Smeborg and I are on the same page. Ignoring the passing game on Norse is a recipe for disaster. Out of the box, yes, they're not great at it, but as Smeborg just said 1 or 2 skills in, and you're cooking with gas. They're as good at passing as you can be without being an Elf.

If I'm on the other side of the pitch from a Norse coach with the 'only a running game' attitude I am loving it. You know exactly what they're going to do, and how to shut them down.

To Jimmy, OK I concede For God's sake may have been a bit extreme,

But I stand by the advice, a +MV on a Norse Runner is total gold and should not be passed up.

[spubbbba]

I think the general consensus was that +MA was a viable choice for a runner, I thought the lrb4 catchers were a bit useless aside from agility access but really rate runners from out of the box. The MA7 is greatly useful and dauntless is a nice skill to have for taking down pesky ST4 ball carriers.

It is giving them NoS on a double or catch and diving catch on a normal that are causing the disputes as these are all very situational skills that are unlikely to be even used once a game on average. Dodge, sidestep and diving tackle are all much better choices.

The other dispute is whether to spend TV and skills making norse better at passing (which they are average at best at) or concentrate on maximising their strengths. Even for elves I would say the passing game is too risky and I only use it to farm spp’s or when the running game has failed.
Since all but 3 of your players have at least AG3 and MA6 then any of them can have a reasonable shot at passing and catching the ball. So if you have to resort to the passing game (which you should only do when desperate) then you have plenty of players who have a reasonable chance of success. You can spend 60-100TV making them better at this, but I feel you would be better spending those on bread and butter skills which would mean you were less likely to have to rely on passing.

[Smeborg]

But as I tried to point out, it only takes 2-4 points of TV to give Norse a decent passing option.

All the best.

[Hitonagashi]

But as I tried to point out, it only takes 2-4 points of TV to give Norse a decent passing option.

All the best.

That's an additional MB/PO blitzer, and I'd say that would be used more often than NOS/Catch (if you are playing Norse safely!)

In terms of the runner, he has GA access. Guard/blodge/ss is better than blodge/NOS/divine catch. Why waste rolls on your only player who starts with A?