AG5 Gutter runner rolls +AG... excessive or AWESOME?

[dode74]

You can't leap over a wall of players, and a single leap can save you a lot of MA and dodge rolls, increasing his effective range. Your thrower is different; GRs live on speed.

[Porkus_Maximus]

I've got a pro-elf thrower with AG6 - at this stage he succeeds at nearly everything on 2+ so his problem is the dreaded double one more than anything else, I see no need for Leap. Survival skills such as side-step are probably better than Leap.

Anyway that's a long time away, he'll probably be fouled to death before he can get another two skills...

Thrower =/= receiver, they're two completely different players designed to do two completely different things.

[Smurf]

I think it was another thread where we ummed and ahhed abouit AG6.

IMO it is over rated and not worth the 40k bloat.

It doesn't help a Thrower any more than the AG5.

AG6 is only good when in tackle zones either to pick up or dodge and not much better than the odd scrape of a AG5.

AG5 picks the ball up on a 2+ like an AG4 but can even do it when raining or in a TZ.
AG6 ditto but 2+ on a 2 TZs. Which means your opponent has to guard the ball with one because it is no different with 2.

It would help in Catching the Ball and would make a Pass Blocker awesome (intercepts on a 3+).

Well if your opponents don't use tackle now... you have them stitched!

[narg]

Thrower =/= receiver, they're two completely different players designed to do two completely different things.

Yeah I don't know, at this stage I use him quite often as a cage-breaker (a 1D block is better than nothing at all as I have no player with leap) and to retrieve the ball in tackle zones. I think the gutter runner could be used like that as well, so in that sense they have similar uses.

It doesn't help a Thrower any more than the AG5.

Huh
Long bomb on 3+ without Accurate or Strong Arm, on top of the above uses.

[dode74]

Nope. Long bomb is 4+ for both AG5 and 6 without other skills. AG target is 1+, and a roll of 3 on a bomb hits that, except both modified and unmodified 1s are fumbles for passing, making that roll of 3 a fumble.

[Aliboon]

+AG!

1-turner-extraordinaire-as-well-as-everything-else.

[narg]

Nope. Long bomb is 4+ for both AG5 and 6 without other skills. AG target is 1+, and a roll of 3 on a bomb hits that, except both modified and unmodified 1s are fumbles for passing, making that roll of 3 a fumble.

You sure about that?
I have this player on table-top and it's not like AG6 is a common occurrence (pretty sure he's the only one in the league - or in any league I ever played for that matter), so maybe we're playing it wrong.

Here's what the playbook says:
"A roll of 1 before modification always fails and a roll of 6 before modifications always succeeds", so my understanding is that a 1 after modification is ok if you have the right agility, and the table on page 6 of the competition rules shows clearly that a 1+ is a success with AG6.

EDIT: ok just saw that, it's in the advanced rules for fumbles on page 22, fair enough, I just learned something.
EDIT 2: that's lame! AG6 is definitely less useful that I thought...
EDIT 3: really annoyed! I shouldn't have read this topic, my star player is suddenly not as good as he used to be.
Well anyway he's got Safe Throw so on a 3 he keeps the ball but still...

[Aliboon]

Well anyway he's got Safe Throw so on a 3 he keeps the ball but still...

On a 2 he still keeps the ball. Unmodified-AG-roll. I think.

[Smurf]

Nope. Long bomb is 4+ for both AG5 and 6 without other skills. AG target is 1+, and a roll of 3 on a bomb hits that, except both modified and unmodified 1s are fumbles for passing, making that roll of 3 a fumble.

Bingo!

Therefore, over all I don't think AG6 is worth it.

In a similar vien is ST increases for big guys are sometimes just not worth it too and taking the double would be better.

[Smeborg]

We are moving away from the OP, which was about AG6 on a Gutter Runner, not a Thrower. I am inclined to agree that AG6 is wasted on most Throwers, but I don't think it's wasted on a Gutter Runner, who can use it for dodging into multiple tackle zones, picking up the ball ditto, etc.

All the best.

[dode74]

I think the AG6 is worth it unless your guy is a dedicated thrower. Not choosing to be able to dodge, pickup, catch, or do just about anything in 2 TZs on 2+ because you might throw a long bomb and it's not quite as efficient at that is crazy.

[narg]

I think the AG6 is worth it unless your guy is a dedicated thrower. Not choosing to be able to dodge, pickup, catch, or do just about anything in 2 TZs on 2+ because you might throw a long bomb and it's not quite as efficient at that is crazy.

+1

We are moving away from the OP

Well we're talking about AG6 which is quite uncommon so that's why I thought my experience with my thrower was relevant. I gave my guy dodge and safe throw so that he could pick-up the ball in multiple zones and throw it to someone without being intercepted - the gutter runner will probably do the same thing apart from the fact that as he's faster he can possibly just move to a safe position or do a hand-off.

And when coaches have AG5 or AG6 players they regularly use them as throwers as well - I saw a witch-elf used that way, so I don't think that the discussion on my thrower was irrelevant, this gutter runner is now probably better at passing than his team's thrower.

So to summarize, even though AG6 isn't as good as I thought I would still take it. I guess +ST or Horns next would be deadly!

[Hitonagashi]

We are moving away from the OP, which was about AG6 on a Gutter Runner, not a Thrower. I am inclined to agree that AG6 is wasted on most Throwers, but I don't think it's wasted on a Gutter Runner, who can use it for dodging into multiple tackle zones, picking up the ball ditto, etc.

All the best.

+1

Gutter runners pull risky s***.

+AG means they can pull riskier s***.

Skaven: Live fast; die fast.

[TheDoc]

Ag6 on a gutterrunner.... you lucky B*****d!