Can Mino WA can move b4 blitzing?

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:21 pm

Make it incrediably clear in the LRB, that using a re-roll for a Wild Animal IP does not allow you to move your entire team before the Wild Animal. Its very vague currently.
BBRC response: If you at the START of your action, your are standing and have an adjacent opponent you must block or blitz one of them immediately. If you are prone, you do not have to stand-up. If you are prone and choose to stand up, and then have an adjacent opponent you are NOT required to blitz him and could even dodge away if desired

from ( http://www.midgardbb.com/BBRC_HotList.html )
If I'm not entirely mistaken, to blitz immediately implies that WA's are not allowed to walk around the pitch to come back later for the Blitz.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:23 pm

But then, maybe I am mistaken...

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:01 am

Yes, but your quote is very unofficial. The guy who answered the question isn't the one writing the rules. What they're saying is that this should be clarified in the rules.

Mirascael · Post by **Mirascael** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 8:33 pm

Zombie wrote:Yes, but your quote is very unofficial. The guy who answered the question isn't the one writing the rules. What they're saying is that this should be clarified in the rules.

Just for the record:
How unofficial are the clarifications on that site?
And how reliable are those BBRC-statements found there?

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 8:49 pm

The top of the page says;

Any answer below not printed in the LRB, Annual, BB Mag, or Rules Review is not official. The answers here for those items should be considered responses by a single BBRC member trying to help, not an agreed upon answer by the BBRC."

I believe the BBRC responses are offical, but the terms used there could be construed a different way. "you ... must blitz immediately" could be interpreted as starting your blitz action before anything else. This would just put it in line with the WA requirements.

I still think that dodging out to make the blitz isn't what they had in mind, though.

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Sun Feb 23, 2003 8:38 pm

I have to agree 100% with Grumbledook's reading of the rules.

Grumbledook wrote:Wild animal kinda implies to me that its a wild animal, not the sort of forward thinking kinda thing thats about to be thinking about dodging away first so he can get an easier block. Thats says more cunning than wild to me. I think he should have to do the block before moving, this also clears up any sort of other problem that might occur.

This is within the spirit and the letter of the law. To me a Wild Animal hits first and thinks later - so being able to back up and, asses the situation and then make a blitz is would be a foreign concept to a WA. Basically he acts on instinct - see player smash... what now?

I strongly dissagree with allowing a WA to dodge out of the tackle zone before making the blitz as it really does open up a nasty can of worms and is just asking for abuse.

aristodeimos · Post by **aristodeimos** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 10:17 pm

Absolutely! Wild Animals are just that...WILD! They aren't worried about their well being. To run away first (though smart), is a sign of weakness and lack of faith in his fighting abilities.

Please keep in mind that "Wild Animal" is suppose to be a negative trait.

Dragoonkin · Post by **Dragoonkin** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 6:47 am

You guys are reading way too much fluff into the wording.

All it says is that the Wild Animal must Block or Blitz one of the players adjacent to him at the start of his turn. This means that I could say "I'm Blitzing player X", Dodge out of the cage, run around, and hit that player in the back for all it matters.

I've fufilled the requirements: I used my Blitz action on one of the players adjacent to me at the start of the turn. It may not be in the "spirit" of the rule, but it's perfectly well within the letter of the rule. If you don't like it, house rule it. But as the rule stands, moving before the WA hits the target is perfectly legal.

Slinky78 · Post by **Slinky78** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 8:14 pm

I can't see how anyone other than a lawyer could really contemplate moving before the obligatory block/blitz, the wording is 100% clear, but it's apparent in context.
Rat-ogre turn...snaps to life, frothing at the mouth ready to rend limbs... thinks "Hang on, this would be highly beneficial if I just pop over there, do x and y, then head back from this angle so I get the maximum penetrative angle with wind assitance, just on that spot of armour there, which is quite clearly of inferior workmanship"...(more roaring and gnashing of teeth and comes back to blitz...) Utter nonsense. And please don't give the 'bull run up' crap. Raging bulls do not start next to you, then run around the field so they get a nice clean charge at you, they buck, they thrash and get really, really p*ssed off, they don't go for a little jog first.

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 8:51 pm

hooray, 3 cheers for Slinky!!! WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 9:54 pm

On the other hand. A minotaur should act in bull fashion, a raging bull will back up to get running room for a gore attack, hhhmmm horns on a double for rat ogres.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:38 pm

Slinky78 wrote:And please don't give the 'bull run up' crap. Raging bulls do not start next to you, then run around the field so they get a nice clean charge at you, they buck, they thrash and get really, really p*ssed off, they don't go for a little jog first.

But I agree with Sean ... I have seen them back up to make sure they nail you good and proper.

Sorry, once I get the BBRC Hot List back up and running for the October review it will go on the list ... however until then I'm of the opinion that its a legal move to declare the blitz, dodge out, and then come back to nail the adjacent player. If you want to burn your blitz to try a dodge with your WA ... more power to you ... even if you're WA has Stand Firm it cost you your blitz which is usually worth the price of admission.

Galak

Slinky78 · Post by **Slinky78** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:34 am

We have a scaling issue regarding run-up to goring power ratio to be considered:

Mass of bull - well large mythical bull, we'll go for 750kg. MA 6 (?) relative to the other players - moderate sprinter. Say a top speed of 7.5m/sec (100m in >13s). A square is about the length of an orc, so say 2m. He could probably get up to about 3-4 m/s, say 3.5 over the 2 metres (big powerful legs). Acceleration of 0.9ms/s. Force = mass*acceleration, so 750x0.9 = 675N. Pressure= force/area. All the force is being transfered through 2 horn tips, approx diameter 2cm, so total 13 square cm (ish) = 0.0013 square m. 675/0.0013= 519kPa = 75 psi. That would sting a bit.
So he doesn't need to run up more than one square.

Slinky78 · Post by **Slinky78** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:40 am

Plus a bull has 4 legs and a lower centre of gravity, so much more suited to a longer run-up. Top heavy minotaurs would choose wild thrashing over a long run where it gains momentum, then has to drop it's head (and balance - while losing some sight of target)......

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:52 am

So he doesn't need to run up more than one square.

So your saying backing up one square and going back to where he was would be enough to complete the horns advantage? I can live with that.

As for the rest, most people dont have fun with math, they do have fun with bloodbowl, therefore i dont think math has much to do with bloodbowl. Give me statistics if u want but i consider them guidelines not rules. As for the vector mass analysis, dont forget this is the Old World tm not our world. A the math u quoted works for our world, in a world where a common mortor (like chaos dwarves use) can make an earthquake effect over 24 yards (the original versions of wh had 1" = 2 yards), definately does not use our physics/math.