Another Skaven question...

[mrinprophet]

I'm sure this seems trivial, but I can't get it out of mind.


Standard Linerat lined up next to ST3, no block opponent. I've completed all my important moves for the turn. Do I make the 1d block, do nothing to maintain TZ, or dodge out? I know the odds in each case, and I'm sure there are a host of variables that can be added that would change what is to be done, but, in general, what to do? Thanks for the advice.

[Skummy]

Take the block, unless failing the hit would free up the opponent to do something nasty, like leaving a free lane to blitz your ballcarrier.

[sean newboy]

Like he said, do the deed.When hitting u would have a 2 in 6 chance of knocking them over (without going down yourself) , when taking a hit its only a 1 in 6 chance of knocking them down. This all assumes they dont have any armor/injury mod skills.

[Matsu]

Really, it should just be an analysis of the good and bad:

1. Good
2 in 6 chance of pushback and knockdown - could cause an injury.
2 in 6 chance of pushback - generally controlling the field

2. Bad
1 in 6 chance of Skull - all bad. You could get hurt and you are on the ground, thus can't prevent their movement.
1 in 6 chance of "block" result - mostly bad. You can hurt them, but can also be hurt. This is generally bad for skaven because you'll usually have lower armor. Also, when your opponent stands up on his next turn, you won't be standing there to prevent their movement.

There are 3 results where your opponent is knocked down, 2 results where you are knocked down and you exert no Tackle zone during the opponent's turn. That's the real comparison (pushes are very little effect in most situations).

Generally, I would say do it if your rat's tacklezone is completely irrelevant. If the rat's tacklezone is at all useful, then I would avoid the single die block.

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Another statistical means of looking at it: number of injury chances. Using the above situation, imagine 216 blocks against a variety of opponents:

Ratling goes down 72 times. Of those, 30 will result in injury rolls (AV 7 has a 15 in 36 chance of injury when knocked down). That means you'll get injured approximately 1 out of every 7 blocks.

Opponent goes down 108 times.
versus an opponent with 6 AV: 66 injuries (approx 1 block in 3.5)
versus an opponent with 7 AV: 45 injuries (approx 1 block in 4.5)
versus an opponent with 8 AV: 30 injuries (approx 1 block in 7)
versus an opponent with 9 AV: 18 injuries (approx 1 block in 12)

So, the armor value of your opponent is certainly a key factor as well. With an AV of 8, you have an equal chance of hurting yourself as hurting them, and you're losing your tacklezone 33% of the time.

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All in all, I would say don't throw the block against an AV higher than 7, since your injury chances are equal or worse and you could lose the tacklezone.

Of course, bashin' is fun so...

[D'Arquebus]

Unless you have some where important to the play for the rat to go then do not dodge away. You have the same chance of failing as you would if hitting him but no chance of hurting him. Plus even if you only push him back then you are at least directly affecting his ability to move next turn. Alternatively, doing nothing at least has no threat to your rat in your turn. Its up to him to hurt you (and he is not especially designed to do so/ignore this bit of advice if he has block or M. Blow). So hit or do nothing rather then dodge.

As to hitting or doing nothing take a risk assessment. Consider the worst case if you fail and fall. How bad for the rest of the team in his turn. Or if the hit works how bad for the other team. If as Skummy says it will open up an easy hit by the opponent then do not hit. If the skaven failing will not cost you too much then go for it. Having played against Skaven recently it can be SO annoying when those piddly little linerats knock your brutish beastmen on their kiesters.

One last consideration as a word of warning. The tackle zone defence or "tacky" defence where you try to hold the opponent in all your tackle zones can be very costly for an AV7 team. Sometimes you need to and you cannot just dodge away like the elves, but try to avoid it too much. Otherwise you will quickly be faced with few players on the field and a long-term dead or crippled team.

This is the voice of experience based on my own team's (painful) and a recent opponent's (funny) experiences.

[Marcus]

One other consideration - Will that player definitely be used in the next turn as part of the play of the ball. If you're just pinning an isolated guy well away from the play, I'd usually just stand there and mark him. Provided you've got the ball under adequate pressure, they will be playing the ball first and, therefore, it gives them the opportunity to make a mistake by blocking your irrelavent player first.

[Dan]

I would be thinking two things

1) Do I really need his player over?

2) Do I have a RR in hand

If i don't need him over then leave him alone, either he'll have to commit another player to making it a 2 dice block, or he'll make a mistake and do a one dicer (or suicide block as they should be called). INO if you make an unecessary block you are disobeying BB rule #1 roll as few dice as possible.