Really Stupid questions.

garion · Post by **garion** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:49 pm

A few questions here, for fumbbl coding again -

Really Stupid says the RS player need someone standing next to them to make RS a 2+ but they can't be stupid.

Just need clarification on this - As I understand it a troll can never assist another troll, reagrdless of whether they are active or have failed RS. Correct?

Can a player that has been hypno-gazed still assist a RS roll?
Can a player that has failed bonehead still assist a RS roll?

The reason i ask is the rule just says standing next to, it doesnt say the troll needs to be in the players TZ.

Please can an ex BBRC member answer this one, and other people stay out of this thread. As we cant have anything other than definate answers.

Thank you.

Podfrey · Post by **Podfrey** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:19 pm

"Really Stupid (Extraordinary)
This player is without doubt one of the dimmest creatures to ever take to
a Blood Bowl pitch (which considering the IQ of most other players, is
really saying something!). Because of this you must roll a D6 immediately
after declaring an Action for the player, but before taking the Action. If
there are one or more players from the same team standing adjacent to
the Really Stupid player’s square, and who aren’t Really Stupid, then add
2 to the D6 roll. On a result of 1-3 he stands around trying to remember
what it is he's meant to be doing. The player can’t do anything for the
turn, and the player’s team loses the declared Action for that turn (for
example if a Really Stupid player declares a Blitz Action and fails the
Really Stupid roll, then the team cannot declare another Blitz Action that
turn). The player loses his tackle zones and may not catch, intercept or
pass the ball, assist another player on a block or foul, or voluntarily move
until he manages to roll a successful result for a Really Stupid roll
at the start of a future Action or the drive ends."

By the letter of what is written, the only conditions for a player to be able to provide the "+2" assist to the Really Stupid player are:
1) They must be on the same team as the Really Stupid player
2) They must be standing at the time of the dice roll
3) They must be adjacent to the Really Stupid player
4) They must not have the Really Stupid skill

Following a successful Hypnotic Gaze or a failed Bone Head roll, the player affected "loses his tackle zones and may not catch, intercept or pass the ball, assist another player on a block or foul, or move voluntarily until the start of his next action or the drive ends.". At no point is Really Stupid mentioned.

So to answer your questions:

Q) Just need clarification on this - As I understand it a troll can never assist another troll, reagrdless of whether they are active or have failed RS. Correct?
A) This is correct [Edit (thanks Buggrit): Assuming the troll in question is a "standard" troll with the Really Stupid skill]

Q) Can a player that has been hypno-gazed still assist a RS roll?
A) Yes, subject to the 4 criteria above

Q) Can a player that has failed bonehead still assist a RS roll?
A) Yes, subject to the 4 criteria above

Please note that I'm not an ex-BBRC member, but I believe the above answer to be conclusive.

Hope this helps!

Geoff

garion · Post by **garion** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:28 pm

yup that is what i think too. it just seems incredibly dumb that a hypno gazed player can assist a RS roll. Would like to know what the intention of the BBRC was with this, because sometimes the literal meaning of some desciption isnt what was really intended.

On another note, when a ball is thrown to the square next to a player with diving catch, they use diving catch to attempt to pull it to their square and catch it. if they fail the catch roll does the ball scatter from the square the ball was thrown too or the square the DC player is in. Im guessing the square the player is in. but the rules arent 100% clear on this matter.

Podfrey · Post by **Podfrey** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:13 pm

garion wrote:yup that is what i think too. it just seems incredibly dumb that a hypno gazed player can assist a RS roll. Would like to know what the intention of the BBRC was with this, because sometimes the literal meaning of some desciption isnt what was really intended.

Regardless of "good intentions", my above post is the rules as written. If it were me implementing it then I'd implement as written, not as someone thought they should be. You HAVE to take personal opinions out of it (regardless of whether you disagree with the rule or not)

garion wrote:On another note, when a ball is thrown to the square next to a player with diving catch, they use diving catch to attempt to pull it to their square and catch it. if they fail the catch roll does the ball scatter from the square the ball was thrown too or the square the DC player is in. Im guessing the square the player is in. but the rules arent 100% clear on this matter.

"Diving Catch (Agility)
The player is superb at diving to catch balls others cannot reach and
jumping to more easily catch perfect passes. The player may add 1 to
any catch roll from an accurate pass targeted to his square. In addition,
the player can attempt to catch any pass, kick off or crowd throw-in, but
not bouncing ball, that would land in an empty square in one of his tackle
zones as if it had landed in his own square without leaving his current
square. A failed catch will bounce from the Diving Catch player's square.
If there are two or more players attempting to use this skill then they get
in each other’s way and neither can use it."

I'd beg to differ with you on whether the rules are clear or not....... but that's just my take

Buggrit · Post by **Buggrit** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:10 am

Technically there's one troll in the game that CAN help a really stupid player... Ripper, because he has no negatraits other than Loner!!

landrover · Post by **landrover** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:50 am

I disagree. The wording of the rule does not actually omit players with the Really Stupid trait from assisting Really Stupid teammates with their RS roll. It only (loosely) states that a player who is not currently Really Stupid cannot assist with a RS roll.

dode74 · Post by **dode74** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:07 am

landrover wrote:I disagree. The wording of the rule does not actually omit players with the Really Stupid trait from assisting Really Stupid teammates with their RS roll. It only (loosely) states that a player who is not currently Really Stupid cannot assist with a RS roll.

I think there is a difference between being Really Stupid (i.e. having the skill) and failing the Really Stupid roll, and that is what precludes trolls from assisting each other according to the rule. The player is Really Stupid regardless of whether he is doing really stupid things at the time.

If there are one or more players from the same team standing adjacent to the Really Stupid player"s square, and who aren"t Really Stupid, then add 2 to the D6 roll.

daloonieshaman · Post by **daloonieshaman** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:11 am

Dodge74
a player with the Really Stupid skill is Really Stupid
A player who is Really Stupid must make a die roll to do an action
A really stupid player that fails the die roll looses all tackle zone (and other stuff) until he passes a roll or the drive ends
so
A Really Stupid (that has or has not failed a roll) cannot assist a different Really stupid giving him a 2+ to pass said roll

in summary: You are always Really Stupid, you roll the die to see if you act (Same as bone head or Wild Animal, just different side effects)

dode74 · Post by **dode74** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:34 am

Yep, that's pretty much what I was saying

garion · Post by **garion** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:42 am

ah yeah the diving catch one is really obvious, lol dont know how i missed that line

anyway. yes i want to hear the correct response from the bbrc, because written and intention are not always what you get in bloodbowl, a lot of rules could be interpreted in different ways, hence the FAQ section.

I knew i was right in regard to other RS players really.

But its a failed bone head assist and hypno gazed player assist that seem very wrong. Especially the hynpo gazed player. He shouldn't be able to prod a RS player in the right direction, or talk etc... he cant even catch a ball that is thrown at him, it just bounces of his head lol. He is in a deep trance so i don't get how he helps....

But sadly I think you are right its just unbelievably dumb if that is the case.

dode74 · Post by **dode74** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:24 am

It was written the same in LRB 4. I think if the intent were for HG'd or Bonehead players to not add 2 to the roll then it would have said "If the Really Stupid player is standing in the tacklezones of one or more players from the same team standing adjacent to the Really Stupid player's square, and who aren't Really Stupid, then add 2 to the D6 roll." I think it's worth clarifying though, as you say.

garion · Post by **garion** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:19 pm

yup, that's what i was searching for, the word tackle-zone. But its not there.

its so very very wrong if the intention is to allow bone headed players and hypnoed players to assist, because it is assisting really, no matter what way you look at it. But we will find out soon. Sadly i think i know what the answer is going to be, and its not going to be good lol

Corvidius · Post by **Corvidius** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:27 pm

garion wrote:yup, that's what i was searching for, the word tackle-zone. But its not there. its so very very wrong if the intention is to allow bone headed players and hypnoed players to assist, because it is assisting really, no matter what way you look at it. But we will find out soon. Sadly i think i know what the answer is going to be, and its not going to be good lol

I don't know, if you view it, not as assisting, but as it's easier for the Troll to remember what he's doing when he has team mates near him then it's fine.

"Duh, what am i meant to be doing again? Oh deres Ugluk, oh yeh, futball! Better hit somfing then."

Works for me.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:35 pm

garion wrote:its so very very wrong if the intention is to allow bone headed players and hypnoed players to assist, because it is assisting really, no matter what way you look at it. But we will find out soon. Sadly i think i know what the answer is going to be, and its not going to be good lol

Not good because you don't agree? Ah well ... the answer is not "good".

We knew full well about players that had lost their tackle zones. Really Stupid is not about that. Its about the Troll being able to focus better that he is playing a football game because his buddies are next to him and can do things to keep him in the game.

There are skills that still work when I'm Bonehead or Gazed ... should the "good" answer be that:
Block, Claw, Dodge (when blocked), Fend, Leader, Mighty Blow, Side Step, Stand Firm, Sure Hands (vs Strip Ball) and Wrestle
do not work when the player is Bone-head or Gazed?
If I have enough awareness under Bone-head and Gazed to do/use those 10 skills ... why cannot I not be leaning on my friend the Troll to give him a "hey we are playing a game right" awareness boost. If being BH or Gazed meant pure catatonic state ... the description would read:
"player loses his tackle zone, may not use any skills until his next activation, may not catch or intercept the ball, and drops the ball if he is currently carrying it. These effects are removed when the player is next activated during his team's turn."
But it doesn't say that ... ie we meant for the player to still be "somewhat" in the game.

As for Trolls not helping Trolls with RS. This was only discussed as a game mechanic item during BBRC but the desire was for the 2 Trolls on Goblin teams to not be able to stand next to either and solve the "problem" of Really Stupid. If you want a life reason for this one ... let's just say that Trolls are not social enough creatures to normally help a brother keep his head in the game.

Tom

garion · Post by **garion** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:29 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:
garion wrote:its so very very wrong if the intention is to allow bone headed players and hypnoed players to assist, because it is assisting really, no matter what way you look at it. But we will find out soon. Sadly i think i know what the answer is going to be, and its not going to be good lol
Not good because you don't agree? Ah well ... the answer is not "good".

We knew full well about players that had lost their tackle zones. Really Stupid is not about that. Its about the Troll being able to focus better that he is playing a football game because his buddies are next to him and can do things to keep him in the game.

ah well thats what i figures, shame. Because in everyone elses mind that i have ever met, RS is about a player standing next to them goading them into the right direction, or proding them with a stick if you like lol

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