Zombies - Wreslte or Block?

[RogueThirteen]

Curious what other coaches think about this one. What skill do you think best serves your zombies, Block or Wrestle?

I think Wrestle is the much less intuitive case, so I'll give a brief case for why I think it may the better option, at least for your LOS Zombies:


It seems to me that zombies aren't really going to be throwing a lot of blocks, as their speed and lack of skills will typically relegate them to just marking pieces without much team support. A Zombie will never be throwing a Blitz.

Given that, if Zombies are going to be out-on-their-own pieces for screening or marking opponent's players, Zombies are going to be receiving (rather than throwing) blocks. In this case, Wrestle is more dangerous to your opponent, because you'll be able to get up before their wrestled piece would.

Obviously Block would be better if you want to play the bash and kill game, BUT: other bash teams will have a huge edge against Necro/Undead teams because they'll typically have much more Guard than just the Wights and Golems/Mummies provide. So, odds are, against an opponent with far more Guard you'll want to spread out and let your crummy Zombies man-mark opponents. Against Elves, they'll typically all have Blodge or Wrodge anyways, so Block won't be netting you many CAS against them.

The perk to Block, of course, is that it's better for your cage corners, but you can take a bit of care to make sure your cage doesn't end the turn with any corners marked, in which case your corners having Wrestle won't matter that much.


All that being said, I'm still not sure I'd take Wrestle over Block, but I definitely see the appeal.

[dode74]

I would agree with the wrestle case. I would rather use my zombies to tie up an opponent's pieces (wrestle and tackle typically, with fend if they survive) than to throw blocks. With that in mind I want them to be able to not only take a player down to create gaps for the faster players such as wolves and ghouls, but also able to take down annoying blodge guard players, thereby nullifying the guard. I had two, and now have one, wrestle zombie on my 1400TV Necro team and I'm happy with the choice.

[swilhelm73]

Unless it is a very young league, where most opponent don't have block, I agree wrestle is the better choice.

Ideally your LOS is three wrestle/fend Zs.

And while I agree I rarely blitz with them, every now and then having a wrestle player your opponents will overlook to take down a blodger can come in handy.

Also in my experience, they rarely live past lvl 2, so don't worry much about stacking skills with wrestle.

[Smeborg]

I have not yet encountered a Necro team with Wrestle Zombies. I think the above posts may underestimate the number of "quiet" blocks a Zombie with Block may lay down in of a game.

On the whole, I think Wrestle is better on a fast player than on a slow one. It is fairly orthodox to take Wrestle/Tackle on one Ghoul on the Necro team, to create a handy ball-hunting blitzer. I see Wrestle as a ball-hunting (or hole-punching) skill, rather than as a defensive one (only 1 in 12 two dice blocks bring Wrestle into play when being blocked).

A main reason to give Block to Zombies is because the classic doubles skill for them is Guard (which goes much better with Block than with Wrestle).

A second reason to give Block to Zombies is because they are used to mark, to screen, to assist and generally as annoying road blocks and speed bumps. Staying upright seems to suit these roles better.

I have seen Wrestle used on Lineorcs, on the whole I would say it did not work (too many players on the ground, especially once other players start to use Piling On). By analogy, I would guess it would not work for Zombies. But if anyone else out there is using Wrestle Zombies to win games consistently, good for them, and let us know.

[Smurf]

wrestle negates pile on.

[Shteve0]

wrestle negates pile on.

A) I think Smeborg meant that if you intend to wrestle, then use Piling On with another player, you end up losing board presence as several of your players have a lie down mid-drive

B) it's Piling On. Chance hasn't won his crusade yet

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Wrestle for LOSers.

[spubbbba]

I’d agree with Smeborg that wrestle is less useful on low MA players, if prone they can only move 1 square that turn without GFi’s. Often you just want zombies to tie up opposing players or get in the way and block is better for this.

It’s also debatable if the 20TV for wrestle is worth it for LOS fodder as it increases the player’s TV by 50%. 3 Wrestle, fend zombies cost the same a 6 rookies and the 6 may be better for taking hits and fouling.

A block, guard zombie is the ideal for me, I don’t see many other skills useful on them aside from kick on 1 and a DP or 2.

[RogueThirteen]

I’d agree with Smeborg that wrestle is less useful on low MA players, if prone they can only move 1 square that turn without GFi’s. Often you just want zombies to tie up opposing players or get in the way and block is better for this.

Though, if the zombies are tying up pieces, they'll be moving zero squares when standing as they aren't going to attempt a dodge. If the opponent does block them and end up wrestling themselves down, then in your turn the zombie can stand and move one space if it gets it anywhere more useful or simply stay where it's at if it is already in a prime tie-up spot and can keep the now proned opponent still marked.

[Redman71]

You have to decide what you need player wise.

Both skills are excellent.

Vs slow moving players like dwarves, big guys or orcs wrestle is great defensively. Let them fall to the ground with you and take them out if position or set them up for a foul.

In the end you probably want a couple zombies with block and a couple with wrestle.

[SunDevil]

wrestle negates pile on.

A) I think Smeborg meant that if you intend to wrestle, then use Piling On with another player, you end up losing board presence as several of your players have a lie down mid-drive

B) it's Piling On. Chance hasn't won his crusade yet

But I will! And thanks to listener feedback, I'm bringing Shadowing in line as well!

Pile On/Shadow for 2012!

[MattDakka]

Currently I take Dirty Player as first skill (I'm at high TV, though), too many Clawpombers in the Box , but personally I prefer Block on a Zombie, Wrestle is more suited to a ball sacker Ghoul with Tackle.
As written in previous posts, MA 4 is too low for a Wrestler, and Guard is better on a Block player.
For LOS duty I don't use skilled zombies, only the rookie ones, because even with Wrestle or Block they are going to be knocked down anyway.

[Juriel]

It's a mixed bag. Block goes a LOT better with +ST or Guard. However, Wrestle Zombies have saved my Necro plays more than once, taking down people on skull-bothdown results and clearing the way forwards...

So, I'm still swinging towards Wrestle, because of the annoyance factor of Wrestle/Fend, and because it helps with the Necro problem of facing developed bashier teams - taking a ST4 Block/Guard/MB/Stand Firm player to the ground with a 60k player feels good.